I have a little retirement money and am thinking about the UP (Marquette: work)

[AmySue]

Exactly because the housing is inexpensive. So e-mail me if you have a place you want to sell. I want a little bit of a yard, I would like an older home with beautiful woodwork and high ceilings (that HAS NOT been re-muddled into a mess) and I want to know from others who have retired there or are honest: how bad are the winters, really? I don't mind bundling up for the cold but I wonder how to find out what the averaging heating bill is for the winter, and how bad does the wind blow? Constant cold wind is much harder on me than just cold weather with occasional storms. If I want to take art lessons or a creative writing class, where would I do that in the UP?

[TaxBait]

Originally Posted by AmySue

... I would like an older home with beautiful woodwork and high ceilings (that HAS NOT been re-muddled into a mess) ...

That's probably a tall order in the UP. Homes like that were originally built by the rich. Mostly what you find in the UP is poorly built bungalows for the working class. You need to look at areas that were formerly prosperous such as Calumet.
I've worked on old houses most of my life and they are generally awful to heat. Retrofitting insulation, ventilation, windows, doors is very expensive and not fully effective. In the long run its best to just build what you want from scratch. I heat and cool a well built 2000 sq. ft plus basement for about $700 a year. I know people who spend 4 times that.

[Great Lakes Pirate]

Tax-bait is absolutley correct, and $400-$600/per month Nov-Feb is a pretty good guess for a heating bill (particularly if you have high cielings + a 2-fl home).

Snow and wind are a constant factor in the UP. We have just about the worst winters in the lower 48 -- no joke. If you don't like working outside in zero-ish weather, you'll have to hire someone with a plow to clear your driveway and yard all winter.

Arts classes are availalbe at NMU, Lake Superior State, Finlandia Univ, MTU, and probably also Bay College in Escanaba. In Hancock, we have the Community Arts Center which sponsors arts classes -- I'm sure you'd find this in any of the bigger towns as well.

IMO- don't even think about retiring or making a permanent move to the UP until you've spent at least 10 winter days (Jan or Feb) getting a feel for the real thing. Be honest with yourself, and realize that the pretty white landscape in calendar pictures gets awfully monotonous after looking it at for 100 days.

[TaxBait]

Pirate, have the winters tempered there in the last decade? My first year at MTU (85) we just missed 400 inches of snow. I walked to class some days in a 1 piece snow suit and ski goggles.
I spent most of my life in northern LP an left from 89 - 2001. Winters down here seem much milder than what I remember growing up. Snowmobiling and cross country skiing are questionable most of the winter. The last couple winters I think I worked outside in January with just a sweatshirt.

[Great Lakes Pirate]

Originally Posted by TaxBait

Pirate, have the winters tempered there in the last decade? My first year at MTU (85) we just missed 400 inches of snow. I walked to class some days in a 1 piece snow suit and ski goggles.
I spent most of my life in northern LP an left from 89 - 2001. Winters down here seem much milder than what I remember growing up. Snowmobiling and cross country skiing are questionable most of the winter. The last couple winters I think I worked outside in January with just a sweatshirt.

Tax- It does seem the winters have changed. Thirty-odd years ago, the ski hills' seasons began at Thanksgiving and carried into March or April. Now they rely heavily upon snow-making equipment. I don't think Mont Ripley had to make snow when you were here in 1985, but Tech sure has to now.

Same with snowmobiling -- later starts every year (forget December). Ice fishing too, gets a later start. And Great Lakes shipping season goes later and starts earlier then I remember from even the early 90's (when I moved here).

Seems to me, the former lake effect snow pattern meant consistent, daily snowfalls of 1-6", that would slowly accumulate to the 350-400" you probably remember. The past 3-4 years, however, we seem to have days on end with no snow, then get blasted with blizzards delivering 2-3 feet.

I'd say ten years ago, the weather pattern coming down from the arctic would set on or south of Lk Superior -- recently, though, it's been staying north of Superior (up in Ontario).

The last 3-4 years have brought very dry summers to the UP, too.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by Great Lakes Pirate

Tax- It does seem the winters have changed. Thirty-odd years ago, the ski hills' seasons began at Thanksgiving and carried into March or April. Now they rely heavily upon snow-making equipment. I don't think Mont Ripley had to make snow when you were here in 1985, but Tech sure has to now.

Same with snowmobiling -- later starts every year (forget December). Ice fishing too, gets a later start. And Great Lakes shipping season goes later and starts earlier then I remember from even the early 90's (when I moved here).

Seems to me, the former lake effect snow pattern meant consistent, daily snowfalls of 1-6", that would slowly accumulate to the 350-400" you probably remember. The past 3-4 years, however, we seem to have days on end with no snow, then get blasted with blizzards delivering 2-3 feet.

I'd say ten years ago, the weather pattern coming down from the arctic would set on or south of Lk Superior -- recently, though, it's been staying north of Superior (up in Ontario).

The last 3-4 years have brought very dry summers to the UP, too.

GLP is the situation with Lake superior as bad as I've been reading? I believe It just hit a record low. How's it been effecting daily life up there?

[magellan]

The UP is in very rough shape as far as rain goes this summer. I'm talking SEVERE rainfall deficit. I have relatives near SSM, and they had a forest fire come within 3 miles of their home (no, not the big forest fire near Newberry either).

Why the UP? Personally, I don't see what the draw is. It's very rugged. Even the trees in the Eastern UP look like they are fighting to stay alive.

[Great Lakes Pirate]

Originally Posted by baystater

GLP is the situation with Lake superior as bad as I've been reading? I believe It just hit a record low. How's it been effecting daily life up there?

Hi Baystater- The water is visibly and appreciably lower than any time I can recall (since arriving late 1994). The fishing fleet around the Keweenaw has to go out further, to colder/deeper waters, and rec fishing is surely impacted by shallow & warm water. I've heard they are having a hard time docking at Isle Royale Natl Park. Last month I was coming through Ashland, WI, and at a public dock the diving board was removed because there was no water at all(at a spot that was presumably once deep enough dive into).

We've had a very dry two year stretch (our snow doesn't have a lot of water content) so that probably has a lot to do with it. Some speculate dredging down at Lk St Claire has consequently "drained" Huron, Michigan and Superior.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by magellan

The UP is in very rough shape as far as rain goes this summer. I'm talking SEVERE rainfall deficit. I have relatives near SSM, and they had a forest fire come within 3 miles of their home (no, not the big forest fire near Newberry either).

Why the UP? Personally, I don't see what the draw is. It's very rugged. Even the trees in the Eastern UP look like they are fighting to stay alive.

Family bought a little shack up in L'Anse on the westside of the U.P. I have gone up for a very short stint but it was mostly to work on the home. Have not had much time to really explore. But from the short time that I've had up there (Mostly driving from Marquette airport to L'Anse) I would say the landscape is pretty Breathtaking in my opinion. And to be honest with you I'm the type of person that likes to disappear off the planet once and awhile and get back to nature. The U.P. can more than amply offer this.

Hope your relatives luck hold out and it start raining. So we don't see anymore fire that threatens their home.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by AmySue

Exactly because the housing is inexpensive. So e-mail me if you have a place you want to sell. I want a little bit of a yard, I would like an older home with beautiful woodwork and high ceilings (that HAS NOT been re-muddled into a mess) and I want to know from others who have retired there or are honest: how bad are the winters, really? I don't mind bundling up for the cold but I wonder how to find out what the averaging heating bill is for the winter, and how bad does the wind blow? Constant cold wind is much harder on me than just cold weather with occasional storms. If I want to take art lessons or a creative writing class, where would I do that in the UP?

See my response to your post on the other discussion thread, but to summarize: buying a big drafty high-ceilinged house in the UP and trying to heat it in winter would be a nightmare, unless it's an attached townhouse insulated by neighbors on either side, which is far too cosy for some people. The only place to get recreational classes and such would be near or in one of the cities, like Marquette, and I'm not sure that's what you're after.