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rural ny and rural michigan are probably similiar. As a whole not so much. Upstate has 2 city centers in alb and cuse, and western ny has buff and roch. Beside detroit, no michigan city has much of a metro area.
Agreed with the accents, as the further west you go in ny the more it gets into a midwestern accent.
overall, it you go solely by "rural" areas than there is no that much different between michigan and just about any other state. For example, rural new jersey has hills, predominately white people, blue collar, etc...
You are incorrect.
The Grand Rapids MSA is 69th largest (740,482). Syracuse is smaller, ranked 80th (662,577).
Michigan also has Lansing and Flint, which are around 500,000 people each (not that much smaller than Syracuse). Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo are around 350,000.
I would say that the two ARE in fact similar, only our mid-sized cities are smaller. Not that much difference in the great scheme of things.
Michigan and western/northern NY state have alot of historical connections. So many people in Michigan in the 1840s were born in New York they were refered to as "york staters" They brought place names with them like Rochester, Genessee, Otsego etc. Just look at our map and you see New York place names all over it. The opening of the Erie canal in New York literally opened our state up to development and northeast people (especially NY) settled this state and cut it out of the wilderness. Early in our statehood period New York and Michigan were strongly tied. However with time thier influence has diminished considerably. THere have been much larger influxes of new commers over the years that have had a much stonger influence on our state. In the second half of the 1800s, Germans were the dominant imigrant group. In the 1920s-1950s it was people from the southern US who moved by the hundreds of thousands to metro Detroit for auto work. As a result most of Michigan has alot of people with German last names, execpt metro Detroit where those southerners settled. It is the German and southerners who impacted this state the most, and for that reason we are alot like the other midwest states around us who had similar patterns of settlement. We share a great deal with Wisconsin for example, and Detroit shares alot with Chicago or Cleveland. Nothing against New York but I dont think we are much like New Yorkers. Also the geography of upstate New york is much much different from Michigan. New York is mountainous and rocky, very pretty but nothing like Michigan. Michigan is flat to rolling in the north, very few areas with exposed rock outcroppings. We do share the glacial lakes, both states have that in common. As far as the accents that one I dont see at all. Again we do have an accent that is similar to Wisconsin, as we share a similar demographic makeup with them as well. Some say there is a northern cities vowel shift in the big cities along the great lakes from Upstate New York to Chicago. I guess someone has evidence to back that up, but I have never noticed a person from Michigan and someone from New York having a similar accent. In fact having been to buffalo I noticed a mild hint of that gritty east coast accent that New York is famous for. People in Western New York do have mile accents compared to further east/south but it is still there. There is a reason that people have divided the nation up into regions, and that is because of cultural similarity that exists in these regions. People in New York have more in common with Pa, or upper New England than they do with us. We have more in common with other midwest states like Wi or Ind, or even western Ontario. I do think the old historical link we have with New york is interesting though, New York certainly played a big role in the early development of this state.
Michigan and western/northern NY state have alot of historical connections. So many people in Michigan in the 1840s were born in New York they were refered to as "york staters" They brought place names with them like Rochester, Genessee, Otsego etc. Just look at our map and you see New York place names all over it. The opening of the Erie canal in New York literally opened our state up to development and northeast people (especially NY) settled this state and cut it out of the wilderness. Early in our statehood period New York and Michigan were strongly tied. However with time thier influence has diminished considerably. THere have been much larger influxes of new commers over the years that have had a much stonger influence on our state. In the second half of the 1800s, Germans were the dominant imigrant group. In the 1920s-1950s it was people from the southern US who moved by the hundreds of thousands to metro Detroit for auto work. As a result most of Michigan has alot of people with German last names, execpt metro Detroit where those southerners settled. It is the German and southerners who impacted this state the most, and for that reason we are alot like the other midwest states around us who had similar patterns of settlement. We share a great deal with Wisconsin for example, and Detroit shares alot with Chicago or Cleveland. Nothing against New York but I dont think we are much like New Yorkers. Also the geography of upstate New york is much much different from Michigan. New York is mountainous and rocky, very pretty but nothing like Michigan. Michigan is flat to rolling in the north, very few areas with exposed rock outcroppings. We do share the glacial lakes, both states have that in common. As far as the accents that one I dont see at all. Again we do have an accent that is similar to Wisconsin, as we share a similar demographic makeup with them as well. Some say there is a northern cities vowel shift in the big cities along the great lakes from Upstate New York to Chicago. I guess someone has evidence to back that up, but I have never noticed a person from Michigan and someone from New York having a similar accent. In fact having been to buffalo I noticed a mild hint of that gritty east coast accent that New York is famous for. People in Western New York do have mile accents compared to further east/south but it is still there. There is a reason that people have divided the nation up into regions, and that is because of cultural similarity that exists in these regions. People in New York have more in common with Pa, or upper New England than they do with us. We have more in common with other midwest states like Wi or Ind, or even western Ontario. I do think the old historical link we have with New york is interesting though, New York certainly played a big role in the early development of this state.
That's interesting about the Germans and the Southerners.
Another HUGE one is the Irish and Polish (the Catholics). Where I grew up in MI, at least half of the people had Irish and Polish last names. I believe the Polish skipped NY for the most part, and just went directly for the Midwest.
Dutch is another big one for Michigan....which I think also skipped New York.
Michigan also has Lansing and Flint, which are around 500,000 people each (not that much smaller than Syracuse). Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo are around 350,000.
I would say that the two ARE in fact similar, only our mid-sized cities are smaller. Not that much difference in the great scheme of things.
You realize you are comparing grand rapids, michigan's second largest metro, with syracuse, ny's sixth largest metro?
(nyc-buffalo-rochester-albany-yonkers-syracuse)
This further proves my point that ny and michigan are not comparable, as ny is clearly more densely populated (particularily along the thruway) and obviously more diverse than michigan (as a consequence of this population advantage). And again, the rural areas of michigan are similiar to the rural areas of all states. Not sure why the OP felt the need to single out new york, when you could pick just about any state for such a comparison.
Also, for what its worth, syracuse's metro, in the statistic you provide does not include cortland and ithaca (not sure why). yet, both are very much a part of central ny, and many commute between these areas. Truth be told I am not sure why wikipedia (!?) only includes two counties for syracuse.
Lastly, I have been to michigan, both city (ann arbor) and rural (by the lake) and loved it. It is its own special place, just like new york.
That's interesting about the Germans and the Southerners.
Another HUGE one is the Irish and Polish (the Catholics). Where I grew up in MI, at least half of the people had Irish and Polish last names. I believe the Polish skipped NY for the most part, and just went directly for the Midwest.
Dutch is another big one for Michigan....which I think also skipped New York.
There are many Polish in Buffalo and the NYC metro area.
As someone that is from Michigan and removed, but works closely with both MI and NY offices --- the list of similarities are short.
Yes, both have rural areas that are prominently white and hard working. Yes, farms and country living. Yes, near a big lake.
Accent? Not at all. Western NYers have some Canadian influence but are primarily an east coast accent.
Way of life? Hardly. The best quote I've hear about Michigan is that it is the south of the north. Meaning, some of the shenanigans that go on in rural parts are pretty darn redneck and/or unconventional. I've lived it myself. NY is not like this.
And then there is attitude. NY as a state on the east coast has a completely different attitude than MI as part of the Midwest.
Accent? Not at all. Western NYers have some Canadian influence but are primarily an east coast accent.
I disagree on the accent... I think they are quite similar. This is from personal experience. But I also have the linguistic experts on my side.
This is a map of the areas that have the "northern cities vowel shift," which is the defining characteristic of the "Michigan accent." (information from the University of Pennsylvania. link to article: 1
And here is an excerpt from the article:
" Our understanding of complex chain shifts like the Northern Cities Shift was initially based on exploratory studies of a few large cities: Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo. The triggering event of the NCS, the raising of /æ/, appeared to follow the cascade model of diffusion from the largest city to the next largest city and so on down (Callary 1975). When the Atlas of North American English was completed, the view we obtained of the NCS was quite different. Every measure of the progress of the chain shift showed a uniform distribution across a vast area of the North extending from western New York State (Rochester, Syracuse, Buffalo) to northern Ohio (Cleveland, Toledo) Michigan (Detroit, Flint, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo), northern Illinois (Chicago, Joliet, Peoria) and southeastern Wisconsin (Madison, Milwaukee). This area is the Inland North: a conurbation of some 34,000,000 people across 88,000 square miles, the second greatest concentration of population in the United States. It was settled by a stream of westward migration proceeding by the Erie Canal in New York State, across Lake Erie and Michigan to Chicago, and now represents a concentration of industrial cities surrounding the waterways of the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes."
Dutch settled all along the Hudson River Valley in Upstate NY, check out the names of places on a map, they are pretty much all Dutch, all the way up to Albany area.
That's interesting about the Germans and the Southerners.
Another HUGE one is the Irish and Polish (the Catholics). Where I grew up in MI, at least half of the people had Irish and Polish last names. I believe the Polish skipped NY for the most part, and just went directly for the Midwest.
Dutch is another big one for Michigan....which I think also skipped New York.
Yes I did leave out other important imigrant groups in my post. You are right about the Poles, Irish and Dutch. Another I left out is the Scandinavians, but overall I believe the Germans are by far the largest group. If you grew up in metro Detroit however Im sure you met alot of Poles, just as those who grew up in Grand Rapids met alot of Dutch people. Its really interesting to look at the history of this state, the demographics that make it up and then you see a picture of the local culture and how it developed.
Michigan also has Lansing and Flint, which are around 500,000 people each (not that much smaller than Syracuse). Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo are around 350,000.
I would say that the two ARE in fact similar, only our mid-sized cities are smaller. Not that much difference in the great scheme of things.
What's interesting is that the Syracuse metro sometimes includes a county of about 80,000 people, that was not included in this census for some reason. If it was, the metros would be neck and neck.
Flint and Lansing metros are around 425,000 and 465,000 respectively. After the big 4 metros in Upstate NY(5 if you include the Hudson Valley metro), the next closest is the Utica-Rome metro at around 300,000.
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