Kalamazoo vs. Tucson (Detroit, Grand Rapids, Lansing: property taxes, job, property)

[jimdhen]

Desert living isn't for everyone and you'll get just as tired of the heat as you will of winters. You may also be bothered rapidly by the size, traffic, housing, food, insurance costs, etc. in the Tucson area

[fdsfdg]

Originally Posted by Outdoors_Man

Well, I live in Arizona now, (Michigan earlier) and could tell you some things about AZ. People complain about crime in MI, but the crime rate in Tucson is very high. The town revolves around the university, and is highly hispanic. Also, it is like you are in a dust bowl most of the time.

When you talk about crime rate, you have to take into consideration the type of crimes being committed. Here [Tucson] people have their cars broken into and their stereos snatched. In Michigan, you get killed. I guess we all have to pick a poison, eh? You're right about the dust and the fact we're a college town at heart, though.

Originally Posted by 2to4seasons

The city itself is not gorgeous. It is in the valley between 4 mountain ranges. It is sprawling to the foothills in all directions. In some ways it feels like a big suburb, there is no central area to go to for groceries/shopping, you have to drive all over town. The roads are wide, traffic is heavy and it takes a while to get anywhere.

I agree that the city itself isn't very eye-catching (our down town is pathetic, too), but I love being surrounded by mountains. I too plan on leaving this place soon, but if there's one thing I'd miss it'd definitely be driving North on Houghton down to Tanque Verde. Your close enough to Mount Lemon to see all the plant life that grows on various levels of it (it used to be much better before the fire a few years back that wiped out practically the entire forest area), the foot hills forming at the base of the mountain range, and the low point of the valley where there's actually dense plant life (and not of the mesquite tree or cacti variety!). Tucson basically is a big kabob of suburbs. That's one of the things that really annoys me, our weather is awesome, but you can't walk anywhere. We have side walks and bike lanes all over town, but there's practically no one using them because everything is so far away from everything else.

Originally Posted by 2to4seasons

It's somewhat novel to find a true Tucsonan, most people are from somewhere else. I wouldn't call it a college town, though, since it's a city. It's definitely more crowded with snowbirds and students in the winter. The people are nice and unique.

Snowbirds are the absolute worst. They suck at driving and they usually are rude crabby old people. But I digress...

It's hard to make a decision for you with what you've given us.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by fdsfdg

When you talk about crime rate, you have to take into consideration the type of crimes being committed. Here [Tucson] people have their cars broken into and their stereos snatched. In Michigan, you get killed. I guess we all have to pick a poison, eh? You're right about the dust and the fact we're a college town at heart, though.
.

FYI: The State of Michigan had a murder rate of about 6.1 murders per 100,000 inhabitants in 2005 according to the FBI (its lowest murder rate since 1966), and just about at the national average of 5.6. Arizona was 7.5. Wayne County pushes the Michigan average way up in comparison to the rest of the State and even the rest of the Detroit suburbs.

Since most people live in a particular metro area vs. a "state" in general, looking at Tucson vs. a comparable metro area, Grand Rapids, in 2006 Tucson had 55 murders, Grand Rapids had 23.

I just read that Tucson leads the country in property crime (47,000 property crimes in a city of 500,000, or a rate of 10,000 for every 100,000 inhabitants), and Phoenix leads the country in auto theft, which to me is a lot more annoying than the threat of being murdered, because it happens much more frequently. The home security companies must be making a killing in Arizona.

Here's a map of the country showing violent crime rates in 2005:



Contrary to popular belief, it appears the desert Southwest is the most dangerous part of the country. Even way more dangerous than the Northeast.

Just sayin.
Moderator cut: link removed

[2to4seasons]

Just to add...

Phoenix and Tucson are COMPLETELY different. I can't stand Phx and I love Tucson. Tucson has really embraced itself as a desert community. People here are water-conscious by having native landscapes, they harvest rain (catch and reuse), have one story 'low profile' houses to keep cool, etc. Phx is trying to pretend it's not in the desert. It's more humid there because of all the people and their lawns...

I agree with another poster, it sucks that you can't walk anywhere unless you live close to the university. We have a great walking neighborhood, but definitely need to hop in the car to get to the store. And drivers are totally not aware of bicycles here in this "bike friendly city."

It's a strange mix... I've never seen so many Priuses as in Tucson, but never so many Hummers either.

As with everywhere, crime depends on where you live. We feel completely safe in our neighborhood. I'm sure I wouldn't feel comfortable walking around the south side at night, but that's true in most cities.

Property taxes are lower, but if you have kids and plan to send them to school, you may need to look into private school if you're in Tucson proper. In K-Zoo, you have the K-zoo promise, too! That's cool! I think the decision could be made pretty easily with a visit or two to both. If I were young and fresh out of school, why not give Tucson a try? Starting a family, perhaps K-zoo.

[deslok]

Just a quick note to those unfamiliar with Michigan, Kalamazoo is not in the Grand Rapids metropolitan area. The notes on crime in Grand Rapids have no merit here.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by deslok

Just a quick note to those unfamiliar with Michigan, Kalamazoo is not in the Grand Rapids metropolitan area. The notes on crime in Grand Rapids have no merit here.

Thanks for the clarification deslok. Because no one knows that you can go to a site like MapQuest: Maps, Directions, Gas Prices & Business Directory to easily figure that out.

They do have merit btw, because someone brought up crime in Michigan in general (go back and read the entire thread), and it was an illustration to show the true nature of crime in Michigan vs. Arizona (Tucson in particular). Since Tucson and Kalamazoo are apples and oranges and nowhere close in size, I offered Grand Rapids as a comparison to show that crime in Tucson is much worse.

Hope that makes sense to everyone else, because I have a feeling it will be lost in translation for some.

If you want the Kalamazoo stats, it's murder rate is below the national average, violent crime rate is above the national average and property crime is also above average.

[pjmiami]

I'll log in here to second everything in Suydam's earlier post--Kazoo is a great mid-sized city, and you can get pretty much anything you need. People are friendly and (IMHO) more diverse in interest than the average midwestern town. I think that's the college effect and the fact that people who live in Kazoo seem to end up quite devoted to it. It has some of the greatest neighborhoods (most mentioned by name in Suydam's post) I have encountered anywhere. I lived in Kazoo for 20 + years and am back here for a year, after 8 years away and I still love it. I raised my kids in Westnedge Hill and its THE BEST!!! My brother and sister-in-law lived in Tuscan for about 10 years and really liked it there but they were also happy to leave when the time came. So, it seems as though you might have two good choices but I think you can get a higher quality of life for less money overall in Kazoo. Just MHO. However, if the cold, grey days of February and March get you down, and you like hot, hot and very dusty, Tuscan would be a better bet. Kazoo is is in the snowbelt so gets more snow than a lot of other places in Michigan. Personally, I love the climate in part because there's so much snow but I'm sure others will feel differently.

Oh, and about the crime, I can't speak to Tuscan but I think of Kazoo is a safe place; I'm an avid walker and I constanly walk all over the area I live in and sometimes at night without feeling unsafe. I would certainly feel safe walking around downtown at night as its fairly lively. The north side of town is notorious for drugs and crime and there are a few other areas that have problems but you just learn which parts to stay away from, like anywhere else. I sleep with my windows open in the summer, I often forget to lock my car door and I walk in my neighborhood at night--pretty safe in my estimation.

[btroop]

I loved in tucson for six years, left in 2001 and moved to Michigan. My preference is definately Michigan.

[odinloki1]

I moved from MI to here in July of 2005 and regret it but I was forced to in order to get a job. I personally feel you can go outside and enjoy the outdoors much more in MI than in Tucson. 6 months of oppresive heat vs. 4 months of cold winter and even if you have good endurance for heat you still need to carry so much water you're going to develop a good relationship with a chiropractor. In terms of atmosphere and crime and a sense of community, if you want those things go to MI, Tucson is lacking.

[adrock112]

lived in kazoo for 50 years. you couldn't give me a house in that city.