[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by magellan

Obviously a large influx of people, especially baby boomers and retirees, allows Arizona to keep their property taxes low and even to lower them even more.

The problem is that taxes are usually structured to make it as palatable to the local demographic. This means that taxes might be kept low in AZ, but schools suffer as a result, just like they do in FL. Retired people do not want to help fund the education of other people's children.

It really is an apples to oranges comparison. If I was relatively fresh out of college or ready to retire, I would probably pick Tucson. There are plenty of 20-somethings and geriatrics to rub elbows with.

For anyone in their 30s-50s, especially if you have a family, I would pick Kzoo. I was offered a job at U of A and we thought about it in order to be closer to family in CA, but the quality of schools was a major factor. Relativley common MI public school districts like East Grand Rapids, Troy and Ann Arbor would be the absolute best case scenario in AZ, and you would be talking double the cost of living in the most elite areas, which defeats the purpose of living in AZ. More typically, very good districts in AZ are your average ones here. At the top, I don't think excellent districts like Forest Hills, Birmingham, and Grosse Pointe even exist in AZ.

And then there is college. I could think of at least seven or eight universities in MI I would rather have my kids attend before U of A and Arizona State. Look at the admissions demographics. MI students get into the Ivies, Chicago, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, etc. at a relatively high percentage. AZ students, not so much.

[suydam]

Hey, just a case in point, I don't think EGR is "relatively common".
It's consistently rated atop GR-area districts (alongside Forest Hills) and in the top tier of state districts (so is Ann Arbor).

I know that's off-topic sorry.

Your general point is correct: public schools in Michigan are top-notch compared to Arizona and other states.

Now, back on topic:

For the sake of this thread, public schools in Portage and Mattawan are top-notch. Better than you'd find in Tuscon without paying an arm-and-a-leg. In addition, we're still going to have drinking water in 30 years here in West Michigan. I'm not sure you can say the same for Tuscon. ;-)

[Cato the Elder]

EGR, Troy, A2, Bloomfield, West Bloomfield, Plymouth, Northville...relatively common. EGR is a great district along with the rest, but the elite districts are Forest Hills, Birmingham, and Grosse Pointe. When Birmingham district officials gauge how they are doing and how they can improve, they use Forest Hills and Grosse Pointe as benchmarks, not EGR, Troy, Bloomfield, etc., as good as they are. I stand by what I say...relatively common in MI, rare as hen's teeth in AZ.

[mofromcheboygankalamazoo]

i love and miss kalamazoo so much!!!!!!
I worked in the public schools and I have a lot of good things to say about them besides the kalamazoo promise-which is awesome!......i have friends that their address is kalamazoo but it is way up near D ave. and their kids go to plainwell schools and they teach in mattawan schools (which i love too!) you have so many options when it comes to kzoo!

[suydam]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

EGR, Troy, A2, Bloomfield, West Bloomfield, Plymouth, Northville...relatively common. EGR is a great district along with the rest, but the elite districts are Forest Hills, Birmingham, and Grosse Pointe. When Birmingham district officials gauge how they are doing and how they can improve, they use Forest Hills and Grosse Pointe as benchmarks, not EGR, Troy, Bloomfield, etc., as good as they are. I stand by what I say...relatively common in MI, rare as hen's teeth in AZ.

I'm still not sure I agree....

EGR out-scores Forest Hills on standardized tests. Granted, that's not the only measure of achievement, but it's certainly the most popular when it comes to college admissions.

If you use Newsweeks' rankings of top public high schools, none of Forest Hills ' three high shcools makes the top 1000 list. Of those top 1000 only 12 are from Michigan. EGR, Holland, Troy, East Lansing, Farmington Bloomfield Hills, Grosse Pointe and Birmingham all make the list.

Sorry to be so off topic, but I was rather annoyed by your tone of authority on this matter when the majority of data available doesn't agree with you.

If I have anymore to say, I pledge to PM or put it in a new thread. Sorry to be so off topic.

On this topic, however.... someone just mentioned the Kalamazoo Promise. That alone merits review if you're looking at moving to the area. It's a revolutionary idea https://www.kalamazoopromise.com/

If I were to move to that area today, that might sway me to look at the nice city neighborhoods (Winchell, Westnedge Hill, Bronson Blvd) instead of the 'burbs. Not sure what our end decision would be...but after some serious enrollment declines The Promise certainly shifts the balance back toward the city.

[Cato the Elder]

Yeah, and Cal Tech was the best university according to US News one year. It appears that I hit a sore point with you b/c I don't think EGR schools are the best thing since sliced bread. I have friends who are in very prominent administrative positions with several of the top MI districts mentioned. Forest Hills, Birmingham, and Grosse Pointe always come up as the gold standard that everyone shoots for, regardless of whatever a magazine published thousands of miles says. I have no personal stake in this; I do not live in any of the districts mentioned. Ultimately, this has no bearing on my original point vis a vis AZ vs. MI anyway. Sorry I hurt your feelings.

[deslok]

Cato, what you say is accurate. The EGR people on the forums love to make the area sound like the new Utopia of Michigan. We could have a topic on how Kwame Kilpatrick was once a member of the Detroit Tigers, and somehow they'd work Holland, or GR into the mix.
As far as Kalamazoo goes, it is what it is. You hit it right on saying it is for the 30 something year old crowd. To retire there, or be a young professional there, I would not even think twice about wasting valuable life experience time there. Warmer weather and more diversity in Tucson.

[tjazz7]

Not to also be off thread and off time (given it's one year later), but I too must disagree with the "common" language used to describe EGR schools. It smells too much of jealousy to me. Since I attended EGR and my nieces and nephews now attend FHC (and I had many friends at both schools over the years) I feel pretty unbiased to address the above debate.

Forest Hills Central is really the only school in question and it has come a long, long way from the rural high school that it was just 20 years ago. Back then EGR was considered the the only superior high school in Western Michigan (outside of City High School in downtown GR). EGR, for example, was the only school to offer Physics AP and other AP courses. Today, I would rank Forest Hills Central on par with EGR but certainly no better. However I still view kids graduating from FHC as more likely to attend Michigan State University or the University of Michigan. A higher proportion of kids from EGR seem to attend schools such as Amherst, Williams College and Yale (like former President Ford among many others). I do not think EGR is the end all, however, as the culture of the place has been tainted by too many transplants from Detroit and Chicago suburbs. But I guess all of those Birmingham and Gross Pointe folks chose EGR for a reason, no???!!! In all seriousness, FHC is a fine school, but I would not characterize any public school in the state of Michigan as "Excellent." Maybe a couple of the private ones though.

[deslok]

This thread should be closed, although the comment about the "culture" of the place being tainted by residents of large, diverse cities speaks volumes.