Kalamazoo vs. Tucson (Grand Rapids, Wyoming, Battle Creek: property taxes, appraise, travel)

[random name]

I have similar job offers to move to Kalamazoo, Mi or Tucson, AZ. Any thoughts that might help me decide between the two? I don't mind the heat and I don't have any kids.

[Outdoors_Man]

Well, I live in Arizona now, (Michigan earlier) and could tell you some things about AZ. People complain about crime in MI, but the crime rate in Tucson is very high. The town revolves around the university, and is highly hispanic. Also, it is like you are in a dust bowl most of the time.

[pitchinrules88]

lol and if the gangsters dont get u, a diamondback rattlesnake or a gilla monster will come unde and bite u! and thats sometimes worse than ebing shot lol. hear its beautiful place tho..if i were u i would also go to arizon forum and then look wat poeple have to say about tucson

[Snootylooter]

If housing costs are an issue, Tucson will be more expensive - important if the salary will be the same both places. I believe, overall, Arizona is a cheaper place to live, tax-wise. I am hoping someone will jump on me, if I am wrong. I know Michigan property taxes are quite steep. Arizona is much dryer and can be unbearably warm in the summer. If you are not used to a humid climate Kalamazoo winters will take some getting used to. Kalamazoo is a much smaller community with less retail/entertainment opportunities, but much less traffic. Tucson is much more metropolitan. Kalamazoo is waaaay greener than Tucson, which can be a problem for folks with allergies - but is a great place for someone with a green thumb, or a lover of truly fresh local fruits and veggies. Both are college towns, but I believe the average age of residents in Kalamazoo is a older - I see a difference when I have been in the malls in both cities. Hope this helps some.

[suydam]

I lived in Kalamazoo for 10 years.
Here's what I have to say:

• For it's size, it's an incredibly diverse and exciting city. It's also small and cannot compare to larger areas (metro population = 250,000)
• Western Michigan University is in town. That means a city with a population of 80,000 gets about 25,000 undergrads tacked onto that popluation for 9 months out of the year. I found this to be a tremendous bonus for the town as it kept things interesting and fostered some economic stability (which is a nice thing in Michigan right now)
• Kalamazoo has a lot of PhD scientists working there for Pfizer (and former Pfizer employees who left to start their own ventures). Kalamazoo also has a lot of un-educated poor people in the city. Overall it just depends on where you live as to which you feel is more prevalent. We always felt the city was a great mix of blue and white collar.
• For the size of the city, there are great local dining options, a great farmer's market, good movie theaters, a decent mall. All the things you'll need on a day-to-day basis are great. There are also good museums (the KIA is a favorite of mine), a healthy art gallery scene, civic theater, travelling off-broadway shows, and even a minor league hockey team. If you're bored, that's your fault.
• One of the premier micro-breweries in the entire country calls Kalamazoo home (Bell's Brewery). It's actually brewing in Comstock (expanded facilities) but they still have a brewery downtown with a tasting room, beer garden, light fare, etc. Bell's is a Michigan treasure (especially if you enjoy a good beer).
• Housing options in Kalamazoo are plentiful and varied. If you have kids and they go to Kalamazoo Public Schools, college is free. YES FREE. The nationally reknowned Kalamazoo Promise (just google it) guarantees free college tuition to every single graduate of Kalamazoo Public Schools. There are great neighborhoods in the city too (Winchell, Westnedge Hill, Bronson Blvd). If you don't like the city, there are great lakes and rural villages within a commutable distance.
• I have never lived in Tuscon so I cannot comment on that, but Kalamazoo is a great city. Were it not for a job over an hour away, I would still be living there.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Snootylooter

If housing costs are an issue, Tucson will be more expensive - important if the salary will be the same both places. I believe, overall, Arizona is a cheaper place to live, tax-wise. I am hoping someone will jump on me, if I am wrong. I know Michigan property taxes are quite steep. .

I won't jump on you , but a little research shows that property taxes in Tucson are about 1.2 - 1.4% of the sales price of a home (market value). Michigan is generally between 1.4 - 1.5%. So a $150,000 home in Tucson would have a property tax of about $1800 - 2100. In Michigan, about $2100 - $2250. And the difference in home values will probably offset the difference in taxes.

[2to4seasons]

I've lived in Tucson for a couple years and we're trying to get back to Michigan I love Tucson. It is totally not what I expected. We moved from the lush, green, soaky Pacific Northwest to the Sonoran Desert. When moving here, you must expect the desert. But, it is far from the seemingly lifeless desert of say, Southeast California. This is a gorgeous, amazing desert. It is teeming with life. There are trees everywhere (don't expect MI sized trees!) and growth all over. I've never seen so much wildlife, right in my backyard. The plants and animals are amazing here, but they definitely scream, "don't mess with me!" Anything that can either pokes or bites. Nothing is warm and cuddly around here! It is not brown and bland, by any means. Right now, in the throes of summer, because it is the end of monsoon season, everything is thick and green. The mountains are all green, too. In June, before the rains, it is brown, everything is waiting around for the rain. Once it comes, overnight, the place comes alive. True to a desert, the temperatures are extreme. Summers are ridiculously hot, even at night, it is hot. Winters, it often freezes at night, so many plants are dormant. (ie. brown). But then it's warm and glorious during the day... and many of the scary critters are hiding for the winter It's a great place to be active. (and get skin cancer, so watch out!)

The city itself is not gorgeous. It is in the valley between 4 mountain ranges. It is sprawling to the foothills in all directions. In some ways it feels like a big suburb, there is no central area to go to for groceries/shopping, you have to drive all over town. The roads are wide, traffic is heavy and it takes a while to get anywhere.

It's somewhat novel to find a true Tucsonan, most people are from somewhere else. I wouldn't call it a college town, though, since it's a city. It's definitely more crowded with snowbirds and students in the winter. The people are nice and unique.

The economy is strong and stable and housing is much more affordable than most places in the west.

We like it. Don't know much about Kalamazoo. Tucson is obviously much bigger and the Mexican food must be better

Good luck!

[Snootylooter]

Magellan,
Don't ya just love figures and statistics?! According to the Govt. Tax Foundation & Bureau of Economic Analysis for 2006; Arizona ranks 31st in overall tax burden to its residents while Michigan is in the 14th position (1rst being very heavily taxed and 50th with the lowest taxes of all). Michigan also has the highest tax burden as a percentage of income - but by a tiny 1% (12% vs 11%). Also interesting to note that Michigan had the 5th highest per capita property tax increase (18%) of all states from 2000-06. Arizona actually had a decrease (-.03%). It really doesn't amount to a huge hill of beans because, as you so correctly pointed out, the price tag on a home in Arizona is almost double that of some places in Michigan - yikes!! On a personal note - I had a home in SW Michigan that was appraised in 2004 at $350k and my property taxes ran over $6k/year. It was in a rural township with a tax structure much lower than Kalamazoo - double yikes!!

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Snootylooter

Magellan,
Don't ya just love figures and statistics?! Michigan also has the highest tax burden as a percentage of income - but by a tiny 1% (12% vs 11%).

It all depends on who is interpeting those figures and statistics. I was born and raised in Michigan, and now live in Maine. You want to see taxes as a large percentage of income - come on over! The wife and I make about 20K less a year here than we did in Michigan 2 years ago, but pay about 6% more in taxes overall.

Also interesting to note that Michigan had the 5th highest per capita property tax increase (18%) of all states from 2000-06. Arizona actually had a decrease (-.03%). It really doesn't amount to a huge hill of beans because, as you so correctly pointed out, the price tag on a home in Arizona is almost double that of some places in Michigan - yikes!! On a personal note - I had a home in SW Michigan that was appraised in 2004 at $350k and my property taxes ran over $6k/year. It was in a rural township with a tax structure much lower than Kalamazoo - double yikes!!

Must be the same people with the numbers again. I know that house prices here are much lower than West Michigan (Ludington area is my true home), but again the actual taxed amount is a much higher percentage. I know for a fact that a friend of mine here is living in a house that is appraised at $36,000 and is taxed on $28,800, his property tax bill? $1125. (if taxed on 350K it would be around $13,600) When you figure he is a typesetter for a printing company and thinks he and his wife together are making good money at a combined income of just over $35,000, you can see why Me and the wife are going to be running back home as soon as our contracts are complete here.

Personally I would pick K-Zoo over Tucson just because of the proximity to the Lakes. I have been in Tucson, but it has been several years ago, and while I thought it was a nice area, it just didn't "speak" to me like K-zoo does. I used to live in the Battle Creek area for a couple of years (Marshall to be exact) but would head over to Kalamazoo all the time just because I liked that town.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Snootylooter

Magellan,
Don't ya just love figures and statistics?! According to the Govt. Tax Foundation & Bureau of Economic Analysis for 2006; Arizona ranks 31st in overall tax burden to its residents while Michigan is in the 14th position (1rst being very heavily taxed and 50th with the lowest taxes of all). Michigan also has the highest tax burden as a percentage of income - but by a tiny 1% (12% vs 11%). Also interesting to note that Michigan had the 5th highest per capita property tax increase (18%) of all states from 2000-06. Arizona actually had a decrease (-.03%). It really doesn't amount to a huge hill of beans because, as you so correctly pointed out, the price tag on a home in Arizona is almost double that of some places in Michigan - yikes!! On a personal note - I had a home in SW Michigan that was appraised in 2004 at $350k and my property taxes ran over $6k/year. It was in a rural township with a tax structure much lower than Kalamazoo - double yikes!!

Obviously a large influx of people, especially baby boomers and retirees, allows Arizona to keep their property taxes low and even to lower them even more. But with extremely rapid growth comes overinflated home values, which is why the Phoenix housing market is doing even worse than Michigan's.

Not sure where you were in SW Michigan, but most of the municipalities in Kent County are between 1.2% and 1.5% (24 to 30 mills) for property taxes. There are some exceptions like Wyoming and East Grand Rapids that are a lot higher, but they are definitely the exception. We pay about 26 mills in Grand Rapids Twp (1.3%), which I consider to be pretty fair.

Back to Tucson. I have heard that the Sonoran (?) desert in Tucson is pretty nice compared to much of desert Southwest, with a lot more greenery than you would assume. "A lot" more greenery being subjective compared to the Northern Rain Forests of Southwest Michigan.