Statehood subject comes up again. (Marquette: homes, tax, live)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The UP was our consolation prize for giving up Toledo. If we are going to lose the UP, we need to get Toledo back. However I do not think we would be getting a good trade.
The UP is too small to really be a State. If they do not want to be part of Michigan, perhaps they can merge with Wisconsin or Canada.
The export of natural rsources will not stop if the UP becomes independant. Frankly the UP has little or no use for hte materials that are exported. Resources are exported and mony is imported. The only thing that would change is that the taxes on the workers and on the sale of the materials woudl go to a smaller local government.
A tiny UP government probably woudl not be able to support the roads up there and definitely would not be able to maintain the bridge. Without the Bridge, the UP would wither.
If not part of Michigan, the UP would not be able to complain about subsidizig Detroit. They would not be able to call us Trolls anymore. They would just have to sit there silently all day and be bored.
It is my understanding that the succession movemets were always pretty much a joke. Just a few goofballs horsing around. Nothing serious. It was never a "Movement"
If they were to seperate, they would have to buy all of the State owned land up there. THe woudl probably have to buy out all of the State highways, roads, and park developments as well. Each resident would need to come up with about $50,000, maybe more.
Merging with Canada and or Wisconsin is a non starter. Actually it was once that way way back. Now Roads, do you know who pays for national Highways now, and what percentage ? We have great roads, way better than Lower Michigan. I think a deal could be made with Canada, they use our roads for trucking trans Canada now. A very large number of Canadian trucks use the Bridge also. Whats wrong with funding the bridge with tolls ?., besides, Its actually a federal Highway , I -75 where the feds put up 90 percent of the money anyway.... Are you saying you and all your friends would not come up here any more since we would not have anything to complain about anymore?...Maybe so. Ether way if Lower Michigan does not want the bridge anymore, then I am sure we up here could make a three way deal with the feds, Canada, and the UP. Tolls for lower Michigan trolls would be double.... Actually , I think the UP once got free passage north bound anyway a few years ago, or may be the other way around, anyone remember ?, When such statehood deals are struck its not so simple as trying to charge the people of the UP for everything. Take a look at Alaska, and how they did it. I think most everything was funded by the federal Government. We could do that also, I actually think the feds would get a savings in the long run, and Yoopers would too.not having to pay for all the things you people have to fight, demand, and in general despise, your self. Just look at what your Governor is doing to you folks, and you just sit there and take it....no not for me. I do not want to pay for another states mess, as , we are all doing now. What would probably happen is a huge bond issue would be floated. I be leave the buys would be brisk... every one all across the Country would want a pc. of History. Tourist would like the idea forming to the 51st state for the first time would bring in huge amounts to pay off the Bonds, or , maybe the investment would be so great that no one would sell .
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan and Sometimes Orange County CA
14,905 posts, read 19,003,360 times
Reputation: 9914
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar
Merging with Canada and or Wisconsin is a non starter. Actually it was once that way way back. Now Roads, do you know who pays for national Highways now, and what percentage ? We have great roads, way better than Lower Michigan. I think a deal could be made with Canada, they use our roads for trucking trans Canada now. A very large number of Canadian trucks use the Bridge also. Whats wrong with funding the bridge with tolls ?., besides, Its actually a federal Highway , I -75 where the feds put up 90 percent of the money anyway.... Are you saying you and all your friends would not come up here any more since we would not have anything to complain about anymore?...Maybe so. Ether way if Lower Michigan does not want the bridge anymore, then I am sure we up here could make a three way deal with the feds, Canada, and the UP. Tolls for lower Michigan trolls would be double.... Actually , I think the UP once got free passage north bound anyway a few years ago, or may be the other way around, anyone remember ?, When such statehood deals are struck its not so simple as trying to charge the people of the UP for everything. Take a look at Alaska, and how they did it. I think most everything was funded by the federal Government. We could do that also, I actually think the feds would get a savings in the long run, and Yoopers would too.not having to pay for all the things you people have to fight, demand, and in general despise, your self. Just look at what your Governor is doing to you folks, and you just sit there and take it....no not for me. I do not want to pay for another states mess, as , we are all doing now. What would probably happen is a huge bond issue would be floated. I be leave the buys would be brisk... every one all across the Country would want a pc. of History. Tourist would like the idea forming to the 51st state for the first time would bring in huge amounts to pay off the Bonds, or , maybe the investment would be so great that no one would sell .
Ferderal money is matching money. The percentages vary, but the initiation of a project is on the State. If Miichigan did not want a bridge, or highways in the UP and put up money for them they would not be there. For the most part, the Federal Government does not build roads on its own.
I do not see the connection to Alaska. Alaska was not part of some other state. To the best of my knowlege other states did not own parts of Alaska. Other states did not build infrastructure or other improvements in alaska with State funds.
Tolls cover maintainnence, not repairs or replacement. Sometimes tolls do not even cover operting expenses. I am nto sure where the M falls.
As somone mentioned the universities would close. Tourists are not going to flock up there - not ever sorry. It is just too out of the way. They either have to drive all the way through Michigan (for which we would charge them a toll) or come up through wisonsin or Canada. There is a reason the UP is as pristine and secluded as it is. It is not very accessible. That is why it is still so beautiful.
I wonder how a new State would get bonds? They would have no rating, no history, no cash on hand. It might take 50 years before they could really borrow substantial sums unless the feds guaranteed the bonds.
By the way the Federal Government has no more money to dump into States. They blew it all on the ARRA. If they were to borrow that big again, their rating might be downgraded. It was threatened already.
The UP has great Roads, but those roads belong to Michigan. You want to leave, you cannot have them. Build your own roads. However if you stay, then they are OUR roads all of ours, you too).
I have an idea for you. If the UP wants to seperate, make it into a giant National park. The Yoopers could buy 100 year leases to keep their houses on the property. Then the Federal Government can pay for everything, buy the State land and improvements, etc.
Absolutley, look at what the governor has done do us: He caused Michigan to get moved from something like 35th best place to do business and/or places for business opportunities to the top ten (on some lists we are second only to North Dakota). He gave the EFM the necessary authority to straighten out the DPS disaster among other things. So far I have not seen him do anything to me that is bad. He did what he said he woudl do. No surprises or flip flopping. That is refreshing. They will eventually have to raise gas taxes to repair roads since they spent too much building nice roads in the UP that no one drives on. That wil be bad for me, but it is necessary. He did stop giving hollywood millonaires tons of my money to make movies here. I liked the movies being made here, but I was not willing to pay a big tax increase to continue paying them to make movies here. I am trying to think of what other horrible things he has done to me. . . .
No offense to anybody north of the bridge but this has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. What would the UP have to gain from breaking free from the LP and becoming their own state? Sounds like a few nuts up there getting loud, there's no way a good amount of the residents want or even care about this.
You have not been following the posts. This debate is on going, has been for many years. Lots of what we say ,we know will never happen, but it's fun to debate. There has been four serious try's, last one, and the most serious , was in the 70s. There are many people up here that consider the UP as separate from troll land, always will, statehood or not.
Well I feel honored and proud that Michigan has the UP. I wish Yoopers felt the same way about the LP. If it just isn't so up there then I guess all we trolls can do is be nice and respectful whenever we travel across the bridge and hope that Yoopers take note that we want to be friends. I feel like quoting Rodney King in his line about "can't we all get along."
You have not been following the posts. This debate is on going, has been for many years. Lots of what we say ,we know will never happen, but it's fun to debate. There has been four serious try's, last one, and the most serious , was in the 70s. There are many people up here that consider the UP as separate from troll land, always will, statehood or not.
My experience living in the UP taught me that most people there are not really serious about statehood. Do most yoopers consider themselves different or even better that the trolls?? yes some do. However most dont care, and most dont believe statehood would work. Also ties to lower Michigan are alot stronger than many yoopers would admit anyway. I did live in the Soo however and I know your in Marquette which is a very different kind of area. I have seen many arguements for statehood and they are interesting to talk about. When you get down to it however it would be difficult because of the low population and lack of funding. One of the more interesting plans for statehood I ever saw actually included northern counties of Wisconsin and lower Michigan. This plan seemed most viable to me, as it gave the new state of Superior alot more population and industry to base a new goverment upon. Just the UP going it alone may be tougher in my opinion. Since I currently live in central lower Michigan I hope this never happens because I would be forced to move. I never wanted to move down here to begin with and the thought of being stuck in a smaller Michigan dominated even more by metro Detroit would be too much for me to take. Id be packing the minute it got serious, either to go back north ( I was happier there anyway) or just leave the region completly. We as Michigan residents are stuck with the terrible image of Detroit in all its infamy as it is. If Michigan lost all or most of its nice areas to this plan and just became a small state dominated by a dead city like Detroit, I know I could not live here anymore. Like I said in a previous post, Id rather see those three or four counties in the southeast kicked out of the state rather than loose the UP. I think the UP could live with most of us in the lower alot easier if it werent for the shananigans of those in southeast Michigan. The lansing goverment would be much easier to deal with after the leaches of Michigan were kicked out, and thier domination of state goverement ended as well.
Puerto Rico will become a state before you guys, get in line yoopers
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $53,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
