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Old 05-11-2012, 07:43 PM
 
4,077 posts, read 2,550,759 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by escilade18 View Post
Freeze thaw cycle, and the state being surrounded three sides by the great lakes doesn't help the cause. Also, come to Western PA if you want to see atrocious roads (there are some potholes that can be several feet deep)

Wow, the Pennsylvania Turnpike has hefty tolls and that road is in poor condition. I guess you don't get what you pay for.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
21,529 posts, read 16,166,998 times
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It's the weather and what snow and ice and what they put on it to treat the ice/snow does to roads. I used to live in NY and MD and now I live in TN. The towns I lived in in those states were smaller population wise and area wise than where I live now. I couldn't believe how bad the roads were when I was back on the eastern end of Long Island for a visit in 2009. I kept thinking they pay so much more taxes there. Why are their roads so awful compared to the roads here in Tennessee? We also get hardly any snow here in Tennessee. I suspect it's the reason why Southern California roads are so much better than Michigan's.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:29 PM
 
391 posts, read 322,103 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
Engler raised the state gas tax.
And spent lots of it on other stuff. He did the exact same thing with boating fee money, which is why there's now voter approved protection to looting boating money for other purposes. Other funds don't have such protection.
I know this because I was working on a multi=-million dollar improvement project for my township, and all of a sudden ALL the money, not tax money by the way, disappeared into the State budget. Over 10 years later, MI boaters and facilities are still trying to catch up. Same for road money.
Those boating funds now have constitutional protection.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:30 AM
 
199 posts, read 163,946 times
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Michigan's weather cannot explain why Ohio has generally good roads, while MI's are rubbish. Cleveland gets even more snow/ice than Detroit. A cold weather state will never have roads as smooth as FL, but there is no reason why MI roads cannot be as good as OH.

I think these are the reasons:

1) Massive trucks allowed on MI roads. One of these trucks rolling down the highway probably puts as much wear and tear as 1,000 cars passing through.
2) MI trade union construction. Well if you have X amount of money to spend on roads, that money will either go into the roads or into the pockets of the trade unionists who build them. And in MI, most of it is pocketed by the trade unions, as well as the owners who collaborate with the corrupt politicians to get the contracts. After everyone has had their take, there's very little money to spend on the road, so shoddy work is done.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:46 PM
 
2,079 posts, read 1,320,849 times
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I was just in nola for the week and their roads were like ours. And they don't got our winters!

But overall, i don't think michigan roads are bad. Yea they can't compare to socali roads but then who cares? I certainly would rather save the 10 cents a gallon (one buck fifty every time I fill up) then get all that road work and slightly smoother and brighter roads. If I wanted to spend extra $$ every time I'd fill it first start with me getting premium.

And dude, lol your mechanic should send you christmas cards. I used to live in mexico where the roads looked like sanfran after that big quake and still I only changed one tire.

I also like the roughness of michigan roads. Back in socali I used to lose traction regularly when it rained, it never happens here (only when it snows, has ice).

And there is no way i'll support tolls. The most annoying solution to the problem
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:07 PM
 
199 posts, read 163,946 times
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Well, I don't like driving on garbage, third world roads like Michigan has. I think a first world country like America deserves better, and maybe it's time for Michigan to be more like the rest of America. I replace - on average - 1 tire a year here, always due to flat tires. In other states I lived in, I never got flat tires. That, and the roads are just flat out uncomfortable to ride on. Unless you drive a huge SUV or truck, Michigan's crater like roads take a brutal toll on the mechanicals of your car.

Quote:
And there is no way i'll support tolls. The most annoying solution to the problem
Don't worry about that. A new expressway will never, ever be built in Michigan. Also, there isn't enough money in this broke state around to convert one of Michigan's existing expressways to a toll road layout.

Quote:
I was just in nola for the week and their roads were like ours. And they don't got our winters!
New Orleans is one of the most comically incompetent cities in the Western world, a place that's on par with or perhaps even exceeding Detroit. It was also left in ruins by the hurricane a few years ago. Comparing Michigan's roads to New Orleans' is like comparing your height to a midgets.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Los Alamos, NM
674 posts, read 854,435 times
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You have to separate the regions in MI. If you're talking Detroit, then there's probably not much difference than OH. If you're talking anywhere north of Cadillac, the differences in weather are considerable. The weather is a factor along with the sheer number of miles of road. We don't get the revenues from gas that a passthough state would get. Our roads are some of the oldest in the country. We don't construct them well enough to begin with to not need continuous maintenance. They get beat up by the heavy trucks more than other states. There's lots of reasons they're bad but not as many solutions. If you raise taxes for the roads, the money will simply be stolen by our politicians and spent for other things. Increasing the price of gas will also cause any products requiring transportation to cost more and make the state less competitive than its neighbors. Same goes for most other types of taxes. The real solution is to reallocate the existing budget to make roads a higher priority than things like the social welfare system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus of Board View Post
Michigan's weather cannot explain why Ohio has generally good roads, while MI's are rubbish. Cleveland gets even more snow/ice than Detroit. A cold weather state will never have roads as smooth as FL, but there is no reason why MI roads cannot be as good as OH.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Lansing Metro
2,623 posts, read 2,639,680 times
Reputation: 3215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus of Board View Post
Well, I don't like driving on garbage, third world roads like Michigan has. I think a first world country like America deserves better, and maybe it's time for Michigan to be more like the rest of America. I replace - on average - 1 tire a year here, always due to flat tires. In other states I lived in, I never got flat tires. That, and the roads are just flat out uncomfortable to ride on. Unless you drive a huge SUV or truck, Michigan's crater like roads take a brutal toll on the mechanicals of your car.



Don't worry about that. A new expressway will never, ever be built in Michigan. Also, there isn't enough money in this broke state around to convert one of Michigan's existing expressways to a toll road layout.



New Orleans is one of the most comically incompetent cities in the Western world, a place that's on par with or perhaps even exceeding Detroit. It was also left in ruins by the hurricane a few years ago. Comparing Michigan's roads to New Orleans' is like comparing your height to a midgets.
You seem to be slightly unhappy.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:45 AM
 
199 posts, read 163,946 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
If you're talking Detroit, then there's probably not much difference than OH.
LOL, are you joking? The road quality difference between SE MI and Northern Ohio is like night and day.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
7,103 posts, read 10,451,300 times
Reputation: 2465
Quote:
Originally Posted by kooks35 View Post
I'll ask you then how much is enough? Should we increase it $1/gallon? Think of the roads and bridges we could have then. Why not $2/gallon? We could have a mini autobahn in the state.

Keep in mind that additional money would be spent or invested somewhere else. It doesn't just sit under a mattress.

I grew up in Minnesota. There is virtually no thru traffic there and the weather is at least as bad for roads as Michigan. They have lower gas taxes and yet have far better roads. It isn't all about revenue. Its about how efficiently the revenue you have is implimented.

Education is a great example. We've spent well over the rate of inflation (400% more for higher ed) and yet test scores are at the exact same level they were 30 years ago. Just because you throw more money at something doesn't mean its going to be better.
No, I think the recommended increase was somewhere between $.09 - $.19/gallon, not $2.00. There are economics at work. And you're right, some of the expenditures are ridiculous. The M-6 in Grand Rapids was a $500 Million mistake. The new US-31 bypass they're talking about in Ottawa County is a big waste. Half of the highways cutting through Detroit could probably be leveled and turned into parks. And stop building those frigging fences down all the highways in Michigan to stop a few head-on collisions. Or at least just build one fence down the middle instead of a fence on both sides of the highway.

Gas prices rise and fall $.09 gallon almost daily, all going to BP and Marathon, and no one seems to care. Ask people to pay $.09/gallon to fix roads and they're all aghast. I don't get it.

Speaking of that, I just got an email that says that gas prices are supposed to jump about $.20/gallon today. Watch all the silly people driving miles and miles to get the best deal, while crying and complaining about the potholes they have to go through to get there.

Last edited by magellan; 05-14-2012 at 08:53 AM..
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