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Numerous fallacies here. First of all, truck weight DOES make a difference - have you noticed those weigh stations along the freeways? They are not there just for the tourists. Also, the maximum allowable truck weight was increased in 1974 in compensation for the 55mph speed limit so truckers could balance slower speeds with more cargo.
I-75 in northern Ohio is not a toll road but is in better condition than I-75 in southern Michigan. Same weather conditions. The gas tax money collected on the Ohio Turnpike is only used for maintenance on the Turnpike.
Gas tax money is diverted for other pork barrel projects. Jennifer Granholm used state gas tax money to build a turtle fence along US31 by Muskegon. This did nothing to fix potholes. The politicians also let contractors get away with sub-standard work. When I-275 in the western suburbs of Detroit was repaved in 1999, the road was supposed to have a 20 year warranty. However, the politicians caved in to the contractor, John Carlo Construction, and that warranty was nullified.
Did you seriously bring up the turtle fence in Muskegon? LOL. Step into the 21st century my friend. How about the miles and miles of fencing that has been added along I-96 and other highways over the last couple of years? Or the digital signs that are being added in the metro areas along the major highways ($20 Million just in Grand Rapids alone). I think those projects have more than made up for a little turtle fence.
Our roads suck because the "raise no taxes under any circumstances" crowd is winning, and we are all losing. It's just simple math. A $.09/gallon increase in the gas tax would probably bring our transportation infrastructure up to speed, yet most teabaggers would rather give their $.09 to BP or Marathon without complaint instead of invest in our roads and bridges.
As somebody already mentioned, Michigan has the 5th highest gas tax in the country.
6th, but who is counting.
If it would make you happier, they could raise sales tax instead and put the money toward roads, or they could tax tires, raise registration fees 600%, property taxes, income tax, whatever. I do not really care how they raise the money. The problem is they do not raise enough for roads to repair them. It makes no difference to me which pocket they take it from, it all comes out of the same bank account.
I know that Indian's net tax revenue for roads is higher than michigans. I woudl have to look up how that works out. On top of that they sell more gas to people from out of state who help share to cost. On top of that they have toll roads that fund most or all of their own maintainence while still generating gas and sales tax revenue. I am not certain about Ohio, I would have to look it up.
I dislike tax increases as much as anyone and more than most. However allowing the roads to decay until most of them become impassable is not accptable to me. Waiting while people dicker over what other areas of spending could/should be cut to fund road repairs is not acceptable to me. Sitting back and hoping that the economy will skyrocket and people will start using more gasoline is not an acceptable answer to me. Saying "I want to get re-elected, thereofre I will oppose this and leave the mess for the next guy to clean up" is not acceptable to me.
Every year we wait, it will cost another billion or so to repair the roads properly. Waiting is foolish. We are nto going to just allow the roads to become impassible, so that means we are eventually going to have to pay for them. We can pay 1.5 billion starting now, or we cna wiat a year and pay 2.5 billion. Maybe we can stall through an entire election cycle and end up paying 5 billion to do the same job. Of course by then many roads will be impassible and people and businesses will be leaving in droves. Some will be unable to leave becuase they will be tied into property that no longer has access.
The stick your head in the sand approach to this problem cannot continue. It will not just go away. It will not get better. The impact to eachperson in this state will get bigger and bigger.
Our government has stuck us with this problem by hiding from it for the past 10-20 years. Our current government is still afriad to deal with it. They are hoping maybe we can just foist this cost off on our children if they stall a little longer. UNfortnuately, they will not make it that long. The problem was foisted off on us and now we must pay the piper. Sure no one wants to. However everyone wants to have passable roads.
Freeze thaw cycle, and the state being surrounded three sides by the great lakes doesn't help the cause. Also, come to Western PA if you want to see atrocious roads (there are some potholes that can be several feet deep)
I've been thinking about how with these more fuel efficient cars, the gas tax is really an unreliable tax. Especially thinking about the Chevy Volt. If they were to make that car more affordable and more people could buy it, the gas tax would practically become more and more useless. It would have to raise at some point or Michigan would have to find a new source of revenue for its road funding. Just food for thought.
Our roads suck because the "raise no taxes under any circumstances" crowd is winning, and we are all losing. It's just simple math. A $.09/gallon increase in the gas tax would probably bring our transportation infrastructure up to speed, yet most teabaggers would rather give their $.09 to BP or Marathon without complaint instead of invest in our roads and bridges.
I'll ask you then how much is enough? Should we increase it $1/gallon? Think of the roads and bridges we could have then. Why not $2/gallon? We could have a mini autobahn in the state.
Keep in mind that additional money would be spent or invested somewhere else. It doesn't just sit under a mattress.
I grew up in Minnesota. There is virtually no thru traffic there and the weather is at least as bad for roads as Michigan. They have lower gas taxes and yet have far better roads. It isn't all about revenue. Its about how efficiently the revenue you have is implimented.
Education is a great example. We've spent well over the rate of inflation (400% more for higher ed) and yet test scores are at the exact same level they were 30 years ago. Just because you throw more money at something doesn't mean its going to be better.
I've been thinking about how with these more fuel efficient cars, the gas tax is really an unreliable tax. Especially thinking about the Chevy Volt. If they were to make that car more affordable and more people could buy it, the gas tax would practically become more and more useless. It would have to raise at some point or Michigan would have to find a new source of revenue for its road funding. Just food for thought.
This is true. Michigan gas tax is a fixed amount. Thus, it is 18 cents a gallon when gas was $1.34 and it is 18 cents a gallon when gas is $3.79. Asphalt is made with oil which of course has gone up in price. Cement, the critical componant of concrete has gone way up in price. The costs for labor, fuel and equipmnt have all gone up. The gas tax stays the same. The only way to get more revenue withthe same tax is to sell more gallons of gas. Howevr when prices go up people buy less gallons of gas (drive less, car pool, buy electric cars and more efficient cars). In addition, ever more stringent safety requriements drive costs up more and more. Every injury and lawsuit usually ends up creating some new safety requirement which costs more money. If we want our roads safer than ever before, we have to pay more. Thus, while costs go up, revenue goes down.
The "quality" of construction is not better in Germany, actually the US is a world leader in infrastructure construction. We know how and have athe capapbility to build the best roads as, or more efficiently than anyone. Companies and governments from all over the world come here to recruit our engineers and construciotn managers. The problem is we are spread out (unlike Europe) and unwilling to invest the money necessary to build the best possible roads all accross our vast country. They design and build what they are told to design and build. Every year as costs go up and revenue goes down, they are told to design and build cheaper and cheaper roads. The idea that they intentionally do shoddy work to ensure more work in the future is absurd. All road work is ested and inspected for QC. It is built to precise specifications. There is enough necessary road work in Michigan right now to employ every road worker in the state for the rest of their lives. The problem is paying for it.
They will build whatever the State decides to pay for. If we want 2 feet thick concrete roadways that will last forever (well 50 or more years anyway), they will gladly build them. You just need about $4 million per mile per road.
The normal life for a U.S. asphalt roadway with heavy traffic is 11-22 years. The normal life of an asphalt overlay (patch) is about 3 years. Concrete generally lasts 20-25 years with a typical US profile (if the road bed is properly prepared). Concrete patches last 15 minutes to a year or two.
Anyway back to the post above, the Government is well aware that using gas tax to fund roads is not going to be viable much longer. They are looking at different options. One option being kicked around is equiping every car with a GPS and trck miles driven and base taxes/fees on that. They can then distribute the funds collected to the places where the miles were driven. This creates huge privacy and government control issues however. Other options are to place a huge tax on car registration, tax tires, Put a transponder system in for all roads where you just get billed as you drive along (again privacy issues), or just increase income, sales or property taxes and put the money towards roads. The problem with most of these ideas, other than the transponder/GPS is that people are not paying based on their use of the roads. Thus, people who do not drive at all could end up paying the same or more for roads as a person who drives constantly. Nobody has a good answer to that problem right now. The reality is that they will probably end up having to use GPS tracking with a national tax and distriution system. People who like privacy will scream, but I guess their option is to ride a horse. Just like if they do not like the fact that you can be tracked by cell phone use, your option is to not use a cell phone. I am not happy with the GPS idea, but I am prepared to live with it if that is the only choice.
I'll ask you then how much is enough? Should we increase it $1/gallon? Think of the roads and bridges we could have then. Why not $2/gallon? We could have a mini autobahn in the state.
Keep in mind that additional money would be spent or invested somewhere else. It doesn't just sit under a mattress.
I grew up in Minnesota. There is virtually no thru traffic there and the weather is at least as bad for roads as Michigan. They have lower gas taxes and yet have far better roads. It isn't all about revenue. Its about how efficiently the revenue you have is implimented.
Education is a great example. We've spent well over the rate of inflation (400% more for higher ed) and yet test scores are at the exact same level they were 30 years ago. Just because you throw more money at something doesn't mean its going to be better.
Spare me the silly "why not?" arguements...why not 10 bucks a gallon, then we can all have chaffeurs!
"why not" is just a way to avoid actually talking about the reality of the situation. More money is needed, that's a fact. I don't think Minnesota pays contractors any less for their roadbuilding, or spends the money more efficiently. Maybe they're just more polite drivers...
Our roads took a big dive when Governor John Engler looted every fund in sight to "balance" his budget while cutting taxes. The end result was a cycle of deterioration and deferred maintenance, with the state falling further and further behind. It has yet to catch up and I don't know if it ever will.
Think of going to a dentist for a small cavity..you're in, your out, not much money, not much time, penny earned and pound saved. Now delay that a couple years and it's Hello root canal or extraction...then maybe an implant costing thousands.
The fuel tax should be indexed to inflation, at the very least.
From 2006 to 2010 income to the Michigan Transportation Fund dropped 7.5 %. That tells you all you need to know about poor highways.
Here's some light reading, sponsored by that hotbed of socialist thought, the MI chamber of commerce, if you're interested. http://www.swmpc.org/downloads/michi...old_action.pdf
If it would make you happier, they could raise sales tax instead and put the money toward roads, or they could tax tires, raise registration fees 600%, property taxes, income tax, whatever. I do not really care how they raise the money. The problem is they do not raise enough for roads to repair them. It makes no difference to me which pocket they take it from, it all comes out of the same bank account.
I know that Indian's net tax revenue for roads is higher than michigans. I woudl have to look up how that works out. On top of that they sell more gas to people from out of state who help share to cost. On top of that they have toll roads that fund most or all of their own maintainence while still generating gas and sales tax revenue. I am not certain about Ohio, I would have to look it up.
I dislike tax increases as much as anyone and more than most. However allowing the roads to decay until most of them become impassable is not accptable to me. Waiting while people dicker over what other areas of spending could/should be cut to fund road repairs is not acceptable to me. Sitting back and hoping that the economy will skyrocket and people will start using more gasoline is not an acceptable answer to me. Saying "I want to get re-elected, thereofre I will oppose this and leave the mess for the next guy to clean up" is not acceptable to me.
Every year we wait, it will cost another billion or so to repair the roads properly. Waiting is foolish. We are nto going to just allow the roads to become impassible, so that means we are eventually going to have to pay for them. We can pay 1.5 billion starting now, or we cna wiat a year and pay 2.5 billion. Maybe we can stall through an entire election cycle and end up paying 5 billion to do the same job. Of course by then many roads will be impassible and people and businesses will be leaving in droves. Some will be unable to leave becuase they will be tied into property that no longer has access.
The stick your head in the sand approach to this problem cannot continue. It will not just go away. It will not get better. The impact to eachperson in this state will get bigger and bigger.
Our government has stuck us with this problem by hiding from it for the past 10-20 years. Our current government is still afriad to deal with it. They are hoping maybe we can just foist this cost off on our children if they stall a little longer. UNfortnuately, they will not make it that long. The problem was foisted off on us and now we must pay the piper. Sure no one wants to. However everyone wants to have passable roads.
You never answered my question - why didn't the roads in Michigan get fixed when Engler raised the state gas tax, or when the previous state gas tax increase was implemented, or the one before that?
Spare me the silly "why not?" arguements...why not 10 bucks a gallon, then we can all have chaffeurs!
"why not" is just a way to avoid actually talking about the reality of the situation. More money is needed, that's a fact. I don't think Minnesota pays contractors any less for their roadbuilding, or spends the money more efficiently. Maybe they're just more polite drivers...
Our roads took a big dive when Governor John Engler looted every fund in sight to "balance" his budget while cutting taxes. The end result was a cycle of deterioration and deferred maintenance, with the state falling further and further behind. It has yet to catch up and I don't know if it ever will.
Think of going to a dentist for a small cavity..you're in, your out, not much money, not much time, penny earned and pound saved. Now delay that a couple years and it's Hello root canal or extraction...then maybe an implant costing thousands.
The fuel tax should be indexed to inflation, at the very least.
From 2006 to 2010 income to the Michigan Transportation Fund dropped 7.5 %. That tells you all you need to know about poor highways.
Here's some light reading, sponsored by that hotbed of socialist thought, the MI chamber of commerce, if you're interested. http://www.swmpc.org/downloads/michi...old_action.pdf
Engler raised the state gas tax.
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