[brindlemastiff1]

First off, thanks to all the helpful posters here as I have learned a lot about SW MI in the past few weeks of lurking.

My wife and I currently live near downtown in Chicago, IL. The wonderful things we love about the city (Art Institute, steak houses, services) are more and more being outweighed by the things we don't like (crime, congestion, traffic). Moreover as I get a little bit older and more mature / less-immature (29, wife is 30) I am beginning to enjoy outdoor pursuits much more. Every Saturday we fight 90 mins of traffic both ways to go to a barn and ride the horse we shareboard. Which is actually "worth it" from our point of view to get out of the city and into the natural world! In the past year I have also gotten into sporting clays and upland hunting (though again have to fight traffic 90+ mins both ways to do either).

Meanwhile whenever we go outside of the city (to my mom's house in rural-suburban OH, or to a lake house near South Haven) I can feel my blood pressure drop about 30 points. I think even 3 years ago I would think moving to a rural area would be extremely boring but now I feel the opposite, that there would be so much I would enjoy--bike riding (not on death trap chicago streets), hunting (on one's own land?!), walking, hiking, riding horses, fishing, swimming, etc! Yes, you can do more of these things in the city but the congestion and commuting time just seems to rob them of their "fun".

What we are considering -- not in the next 3 months, but in the next 1 to 2 yrs -- is making a move to the country, and specifically southwest michigan. I also considered Ohio (my parents) and Indiana (her parents) but frankly I find the landscape, waterfront, etc in SW MI to be sooo much prettier than the boring, flat gray plains of Indiana and Ohio. It seems a nice blend of beautiful scenery, access to beaches, as well as near a big city (Chi), and even some nice dining in the ritzier lakeshore towns (e.g. Saug, South Haven).

The nice advantage we have is we don't need to consider job or economic considerations much (Yes, I am aware we are very fortunate). I have sold a business I started several years ago and we are able to off of our investment income and, the occasional consulting job that I am able to do over the computer. My wife works currently by choice but is 9 wks pregnant now and plans to stop working for the next few years.

Really the main worry I have is, we are city slickers, and I am not "handy" in any sense of the word. I am not getting down on myself because I am good at other things, just being honest, that I don't much about how to maintain a house or land. We even have a "handy man service" on call here in chicago, 3 or 4 times a year he comes in and fixes things in our home. Try not to laugh at me LOL.

I imagine living in a rural area would compound this weakness I have, with the need to maintain both house and property, and some of the aspects sounding somewhat daunting (septic tank? propane power? eek). Also a realization that some of the more mundane conveniences of city life, like taking a dog to the vet or driving to pick up a carryout pizza, probably involves a longer drive in a rural area (but depending on the area might mean a 20min or 60 min drive, right?) Really the issue of house maintenance is why I have decided that I would rather move outright than conceivable keep our house in Chicago as well as get a second home in MI... maintenance, winterizing, etc. for TWO houses might make the potential pleasure into more of a 'headache'.

So really what I have been looking at online are lots (or houses + lots) in Van Buren and Allegan County. Basically these seem like the nice mix of, close to the lake, close to relatives (south bend, IN) and close to Chicago and the interstate.

Here are really the "must haves"
1. 50 to 100acres
2. woods / forest on the land
3. within 90 mins drive of South Bend, IN (to be close-ish to relatives)
4. beautiful landscape ... I realize this is subjective, but we like hilly / foresty / lake areas vs. flat / farmland areas
5. within a reasonable distance of medical care, school etc (starting a family)

Here are the "nice to haves"
6. Close access to water (stream, pond, lake, or lake front, ideally on the acreage itself)
7. At least 10 minutes outside of "town" (I'd want an area rural enough where we have some privacy and I can hunt birds on the land without worrying about neighbors etc.)
8. ... but within 30 minutes of "town" (town with grocery store, bank, etc)

Activities we enjoy: bike riding, riding horses, shooting, bird hunting, swimming / hanging out near the lake, antiquing, eating out , etc.

I guess I have three questions for you all.

Question A: Am I crazy? I have to imagine other city slickers like me get images of themselves living in a "country estate" and it ends in disaster. On the other hand my parents moved from city to suburban-country and have never looked back.

Question B: Is getting "services" in the rural areas of Van Buren and Allegan counties very challenging? Just for example, if you wanted some type of weekly service (e.g. lawn mowed or pool cleaned) or something in the house needed fixing (A/C,etc) or you want to board your dog for a few days while you take a trip. I'm sorry if this seems like a strange question but as someone who has only lived in the city, any conceivable service has always been "a phone call away" so I really just have no idea how this works.

Question C: Any recommendations on areas to look at? Are we on the right track looking at these two counties? Again, price isn't really a consideration, we can realistically afford almost any property within reason. It is more a matter of finding the 'right' place where we can hopefully settle down forever. Thanks for any and all help!

[notdeconcentrate]

I don't think it's crazy, but it would definitely be work. But people in general are really adaptable, and can pretty much learn (if they want to) how to adjust to any situation, as well as new skills.

Pretty much everyone in my family has someone come to do some things for them...my aunt has someone come mow her lawn (and actually, there are several lawn care services in the area), my mom has a general handyman who comes whenever a project comes up or things they have planned like installing new windows, and we've even had people come do things like electrical work and installing doors. Most of these are referrals from someone else, but there's also a lot of services (in Van Buren) that advertise things like this. I actually need dog boarding, and just found a place I'm gonna have to call...they have even have pet tv for an extra fee.

I was surprised to find that properties with 50 to 100 acres actually exist in Van Buren & Allegan. I went to swmric.com and added those qualifiers to the search, and it came back with 7 listings, and all but one of them had a stream, pond, or lake.

For me, the place would depend on the amenities that you want of the "town" that you'd be going to for services. There are small towns all over the place, and you can get from one side of the county to the other in 20ish minutes, so there are lots of options. My first thought would be somewhere around the area of Glenn and Saugatuck/Douglas for the amenities and services you'd find when you did want to go "to town". Plus they have good schools.

[brindlemastiff1]

notdeconcentrate,

thanks for your reply. Your thoughts make sense.

Why does it surprise you that are 100 acre lots in Van Buren and Allegan? Are these two counties more densely populated than I had supposed? Would you recommend any of the other nearby counties for what we are looking for?

I do worried about buying land near an area that is being 'developed' too quickly. In another state & time, my grandparents bought 50 acres and built a house 40 miles outside of columbus OH (and 10 miles outside of the nearest 'town'). That 'town' grew into a city and in present day that city has a lot of crime and drug issues which have spilled into the rural area. I realize most any area can and does change over time but this would be the sort of thing I'd want to avoid.

[notdeconcentrate]

Originally Posted by brindlemastiff1

notdeconcentrate,

thanks for your reply. Your thoughts make sense.

Why does it surprise you that are 100 acre lots in Van Buren and Allegan? Are these two counties more densely populated than I had supposed? Would you recommend any of the other nearby counties for what we are looking for?

I do worried about buying land near an area that is being 'developed' too quickly. In another state & time, my grandparents bought 50 acres and built a house 40 miles outside of columbus OH (and 10 miles outside of the nearest 'town'). That 'town' grew into a city and in present day that city has a lot of crime and drug issues which have spilled into the rural area. I realize most any area can and does change over time but this would be the sort of thing I'd want to avoid.

I think it's just me--something that just never occurred to me. There are definitely a lot of rural areas away from the many small towns, and also a lot of farms, so it does make sense that the type of property you seek would be available. I will say that Allegan & Van Buren (and Kalamazoo) counties have seen an increase in Meth labs & use, especially in rural areas over the past few years, but that hasn't had anything to do with development. Other than that side note, I think either county you selected would suit your needs, but I am slightly biased. Hopefully you'll get some other input.

[michigan83]

Question B: Is getting "services" in the rural areas of Van Buren and Allegan counties very challenging? Just for example, if you wanted some type of weekly service (e.g. lawn mowed or pool cleaned) or something in the house needed fixing (A/C,etc) or you want to board your dog for a few days while you take a trip. I'm sorry if this seems like a strange question but as someone who has only lived in the city, any conceivable service has always been "a phone call away" so I really just have no idea how this works.

I am not an expert on the area of the state you are interested in, but I can tell you that getting these services won't be a problem. The only problem will be figuring out which lawn mowing service or HVAC repair man to call. There is no shortage of people trying to provide all of these services in rural Michigan. I think there is someone trying to start a lawn mowing/landscaping business every 10 minutes.

[notdeconcentrate]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I think there is someone trying to start a lawn mowing/landscaping business every 10 minutes.

Seriously, there is.

[skyl4rk]

I don't want to judge your motives, but there is a huge amount of maintenance when one owns a lot of property.

Have you considered just buying a house in a walkable community such as South Haven, and simplifying life a little bit? Walk downtown, walk to the beach, shopping is close by, there are people to meet and things to do right near your house. Good internet access is available, the streets are plowed, the water tastes good and there are lots of bike lanes. Fire, police and ambulance respond quickly.

The bigger the lot, the further you have to take your kids to school. This is not a rule but it seems to be true. You might find that country people look at you like you are an alien. Bicycling is ok but drivers are not the best.

It all depends on what you want and where you think you might fit in, but you might find a better outcome if you look around a bit, rather than focusing on the opposite extreme from where you are now.

[brindlemastiff1]

> I don't want to judge your motives

Sorry did I come off badly or something? If I did I apologize.

> there is a huge amount of maintenance when one owns a lot of property.

Yes I realize this is an issue (am currently reading a book about it). I guess my thought it, it's not like I would be farming. So the biggest issue would be plowing the driveway (possibly road) during a heavy snow, as well as making sure there is good septic, well, and backup generator (though the latter three things seem like it'd be possible to 'outsource' to experts, and provided one doesn't cheap out on the initial investment and again gets annual maintenance from the experts, I'd hope it wouldn't be too much of a headache).

Am I having a major oversight here? I mean if one is fine keeping one's land "wild" (besides the driveway and 40 yard radius around the house), how much maintenance is there (again besides snow removal) that hired expert can't do once a year?

> You might find that country people look at you like you are an alien.

Because I'd be ignorant of 'country ways'? Or just because I'm a city slicker ?

> you might find a better outcome if you look around a bit, rather than focusing on the opposite extreme from where you are now.

Yes, this makes sense. I guess to me, a property say 12 miles outside of South Haven, wouldn't really be the 'opposite extreme' as it would still be a 20 minute drive to 'civilization'.

[notdeconcentrate]

Originally Posted by brindlemastiff1

> I don't want to judge your motives

Sorry did I come off badly or something? If I did I apologize.

> there is a huge amount of maintenance when one owns a lot of property.

Yes I realize this is an issue (am currently reading a book about it). I guess my thought it, it's not like I would be farming. So the biggest issue would be plowing the driveway (possibly road) during a heavy snow, as well as making sure there is good septic, well, and backup generator (though the latter three things seem like it'd be possible to 'outsource' to experts, and provided one doesn't cheap out on the initial investment and again gets annual maintenance from the experts, I'd hope it wouldn't be too much of a headache).

Am I having a major oversight here? I mean if one is fine keeping one's land "wild" (besides the driveway and 40 yard radius around the house), how much maintenance is there (again besides snow removal) that hired expert can't do once a year?

> You might find that country people look at you like you are an alien.

Because I'd be ignorant of 'country ways'? Or just because I'm a city slicker ?

> you might find a better outcome if you look around a bit, rather than focusing on the opposite extreme from where you are now.

Yes, this makes sense. I guess to me, a property say 12 miles outside of South Haven, wouldn't really be the 'opposite extreme' as it would still be a 20 minute drive to 'civilization'.

I can only think of two people I know that plow their own driveway (not talking driveways where people snow blow themselves), and the rest have someone come do it for them, us included.

and...most districts in the area bus kids that live within their district. The only way you'd be driving further to take kids to school is if you go with school of choice outside the district you live in. Actually, I can think of 3 districts that bus school of choice kids in.

Oh, and I grew up with a South Haven address on a property 7 miles outside of South Haven...it takes exactly 7 minutes from there to get within "city of" South Haven limits.

[skyl4rk]

Originally Posted by brindlemastiff1

Yes, this makes sense. I guess to me, a property say 12 miles outside of South Haven, wouldn't really be the 'opposite extreme' as it would still be a 20 minute drive to 'civilization'.

More like a 2-1/2 hour drive to civilization, heheh

For all the good things about Chicago, there are just a lot of people there and a lot of things can cause quality of life issues. I think you are looking in the right area, SW MI and especially the area around South Haven and Saugatuck is one of the nicest places one could live.