[Zmehappy]

Michael Milken's report posted at Inman News Blog on 10.02.07 puts 9 Michigan cities in the bottom 20 of the nation for creating new jobs.

Is that sad or what?

[michiganbob]

Originally Posted by Zmehappy

Michael Milken's report posted at Inman News Blog on 10.02.07 puts 9 Michigan cities in the bottom 20 of the nation for creating new jobs.

Is that sad or what?

Careful Zmehappy . . . you're going to be labled a "negative Nellie" by others on this forum for posting something like that. Don't you know that if you just think positively that all will be well?

Let's put a positive spin on Milken's report: not ALL of the bottom 20 were from Michigan, right? Doesn't that make you everyone feel better?

Now, go out there and sell some over priced houses to people who don't have jobs!

[magellan]

Originally Posted by michiganbob

Careful Zmehappy . . . you're going to be labled a "negative Nellie" by others on this forum for posting something like that. Don't you know that if you just think positively that all will be well?

Let's put a positive spin on Milken's report: not ALL of the bottom 20 were from Michigan, right? Doesn't that make you everyone feel better?

Now, go out there and sell some over priced houses to people who don't have jobs!

Ouch! Was this snarky comment directed at Zme, or at builders/realtors in general?

[Zmehappy]

Originally Posted by michiganbob

Careful Zmehappy . . . you're going to be labled a "negative Nellie" by others on this forum for posting something like that. Don't you know that if you just think positively that all will be well?

Let's put a positive spin on Milken's report: not ALL of the bottom 20 were from Michigan, right? Doesn't that make you everyone feel better?

Now, go out there and sell some over priced houses to people who don't have jobs!

Good morning Bob, it's another beautiful day in Michigan.

My bad for being kind of down on the economy. Shame on me. Your right, Michigan wasn't even 50% of the bottom 20, what was I thinking.

You have a wonderful day,
Signed Positive Poster! (Hey, wanna buy a house?)

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Zmehappy

Michael Milken's report posted at Inman News Blog on 10.02.07 puts 9 Michigan cities in the bottom 20 of the nation for creating new jobs.

Is that sad or what?

I don't know what is sadder, a known crook and swindler heading yet another multi-million dollar company, or judging an entire State by a few of it's largest cities. I think both are a bit biased and not really a good indication of anything really. What about the rest of the State, where over half of the population really lives and works. I know for a fact the State of Michigan is a better place to make a living than the State of Maine. If you looked at a narrow set of statistics, the opposite would appear true.

Somebody reading this blog and trying to place the position of a State in relation to the rest of the Country would be better off reading tea leaves in the bottom of a cup. There isn't a broad enough set of data to do that sort of thing. Based on the top 200 largest metro areas of the Country, yes it is useful. Basing the rank of an entire State though and you are trying to force the data into your own set perspectives. What about the other States that DON'T have at least one city/Metro area in the top 200, does that place them at the top, or the bottom? That question cannot be answered because there isn't enough information given, same as the status of an entire State.

Yes Michigan has some serious issues that need to be dealt with. Starting with that frigging Canadian sitting in Lansing. Yes it is going to be an uphill struggle for many, many residents in the coming years. No, it isn't the death toll for the entire State. I personally cannot wait to get back there and enjoy better schools, better pay, lower taxes, more opportunities. Yes MI needs to change things, but it is still far better than most of the other alternatives out there.

[Zmehappy]

I agree, it is a great state. Just need to change some hard headed people in mid state. What's best for the state isn't what they are thinking. It's a "CYA" approach at this point.

[michiganbob]

Originally Posted by Bydand

I personally cannot wait to get back there and enjoy better schools, better pay, lower taxes, more opportunities. Yes MI needs to change things, but it is still far better than most of the other alternatives out there.

I don't think anyone said Michigan was worse that EVERY other state, just very competitive racing toward the bottom. So, Maine is worse, in your opinion, and the figures quoted earlier are just a snapshot of what's going on and not the real story. You need to look at the direction things are going as well, and looking at your criteria above, I would be concerned:

Better schools? Enrollment is dropping statewide by about 70,000 students each year and will continue to fall for the next few years, meaning less money flowing into each school. (It's based on enrollment numbers.) Trending down.

Better pay? Manufacturing jobs leave and are replaced by service jobs . . . or no jobs at all. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country. Also trending down.

Lower taxes? Not for long. One of the few things trending up. And, as I have posted in this forum before, Jenny and the gang think all the leaks in the boat have been plugged, but come Spring they will have their hands in your pockets again.

More opportunities? In a majority of areas (GR excluded) I don't think so. Again, trending down.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by michiganbob

I don't think anyone said Michigan was worse that EVERY other state, just very competitive racing toward the bottom. So, Maine is worse, in your opinion, and the figures quoted earlier are just a snapshot of what's going on and not the real story. You need to look at the direction things are going as well, and looking at your criteria above, I would be concerned:

I never said it was one of the best States either. Just a lot better in a majority of the areas where my family needs them to be better. And I HAVE looked at my criteria, and am NOT concerned.

Better schools? Enrollment is dropping statewide by about 70,000 students each year and will continue to fall for the next few years, meaning less money flowing into each school. (It's based on enrollment numbers.) Trending down.

Quality of education is NOT in direct correlation to enrollment numbers. To say so, or to imply that is simply false and shows you haven't REALLY looked at much more than surface numbers. I was educated in a small struggling school in West Michigan (Not GR, there is more to that section of State than just GR.) and I will put the basic education I received 25-30 years ago against what they are teaching right NOW in a majority of school districts across the country. YES better schools!

Better pay? Manufacturing jobs leave and are replaced by service jobs . . . or no jobs at all. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country. Also trending down.

Yes better pay. There is more manufacturing than just the auto industry in Michigan, and there are some of them that are thriving (granted not many though.) Service jobs? I hope so, I'm an Electrician and can make a damn good living doing service calls. When we left Michigan in 2006 for Maine, my wife took a $10/hour pay CUT, and Master Electricians here are earning what 2nd and 3rd year apprentices there are earning. So better pay? YES

Lower taxes? Not for long. One of the few things trending up. And, as I have posted in this forum before, Jenny and the gang think all the leaks in the boat have been plugged, but come Spring they will have their hands in your pockets again.

Oh boo-hoo the State raised the income tax to what, 4.6%. Which is the same as it was just a few years ago, and much less than other states yet. Here it is 8.5% and the cost of everything else is way higher than in Michigan. I'll take an additional 20,000 in pay scale and almost 1/2 the income tax on it! Plus property taxes are still lower than the other States I am aware of. Couple that with utility costs that are much lower and I'm smiling even bigger. I'll agree that the biggest thing that has to change is Grandholm, she and her cronies have to be run out of town.

More opportunities? In a majority of areas (GR excluded) I don't think so. Again, trending down.

Again, based on what? Personal perception and first hand views? Both can be a blessing AND a curse. Nothing like seeing things first hand, but being too close, and the negative can overshadow the positive without a bigger picture to compare. I am not, nor will I ever say Michigan is the perfect State, no state is. I will say beyond any doubt that MI is much better than most other places I've lived, and worked in. Right now IS a dark time there, but even so, it is still a brighter future than others around the Country are looking at.

[zakian]

You data is a bit misleading as well. You're an electrician, you can get a job any place in the country, easily. My summer property taxes went up $500. I can't wait to see the winter tax bill. I have friends in Maine, one in particlar pays $1500 a year in property tax. That's on 86 acres btw. Granholm took 2 trips to Europe recently, Germany and Japan. Why? To try and get them to build auto plants here. Just what we need During one of her "trips" Kmart decided to move out it's HQ's. I had planned on leaving the state as soon as my dead parents affairs were settled. I became engaged and my fiance didn't wish to leave b/c of family. Well she's since changed her mind. This state IS dying and Granholm is making it worse not better. Detroit was as of last week labeled the worst city in the country. I know people that have been unemployed for over a year myself included. Major industries have closed down in recent years. You want to move back here? Great, I can show you a dozen houses in my neighborhood that are for sale> No one can afford to buy.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by zakian

You data is a bit misleading as well. You're an electrician, you can get a job any place in the country, easily.

Yes I'll admit, I am lucky that I can go anywhere and find work. Double lucky because my wife is an Emergency Room RN with more certifications that you can think of, so she can work anywhere as well. That doesn't make my data misleading though. A tax rate is a tax rate, no matter what you do for work. 4.35% income tax is still better than 8.5%. A property tax rate is a property tax rate. Just because you can buy land here in Maine for next to nothing doesn't mean the tax rate is lower. There is a reason land is cheap here, you can't get rid of it if you want to sell, and there is nothing to bring prices up. I'll trade you utility bills any day of the week. When you look up cost of electricity, you have to know that the cost of electricity here is the smallest part of the bill. The electric companies add at least 1.5 times to the bill for "delivery" charges. 435 KW will run around $198 here total. Heating fuel is hovering around $3.00 a gallon and will go up as it gets colder, what is it there now??? Oh yeah, I just talked to a friend and he just paid $1.79 a gallon in West Michigan, last week. Just because I happen to have a job that can transfer anywhere doesn't mean my data is wrong. Plus do you really think having 2 jobs that are in demand EVERYWHERE, I would pick to come back to an area that is going to be hurtful to my family? Michigan IS going through tough times, I never said it isn't, what I keep saying is that it is still far better than most other places, even with the problems.