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Unread 09-26-2012, 04:53 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
7,890 posts, read 7,107,050 times
Reputation: 2152
Default The 1913 massacre

Not sure how many people know about this, but we are approaching the historical event that changed the rule of law forever. It was " Don't cry fire in a crowed theater", What started this was the day that someone DID cry fire in the Miners Hall , 1913, Calumet Mi. At a Christmas party, mostly for kids. So many children, and adults were killed as a result of being trampled to death.
Around 40 years ago now Arlo Guthrie wrote a haunting song about the terrible tragedy . The population in Calumet was very large here in the UP due to the copper boom and mines. a very high number of those that died were of Finish decent . ( Buy the way, the UP has more Fins than anywhere in the world outside Helsinki. Calumet at one time was being considered for the State capital.
There has been some thought of late about having Fin Day over in the copper Country around the same time. The Fin's have always suffered a level of discrimination up here.... As a side note Arlo is still doing conserts, and played the old historical Calumet Theater last year. Wish I could have been there.
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Unread 09-26-2012, 09:33 PM
 
6 posts, read 3,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
Not sure how many people know about this, but we are approaching the historical event that changed the rule of law forever. It was " Don't cry fire in a crowed theater", What started this was the day that someone DID cry fire in the Miners Hall , 1913, Calumet Mi. At a Christmas party, mostly for kids. So many children, and adults were killed as a result of being trampled to death.
Around 40 years ago now Arlo Guthrie wrote a haunting song about the terrible tragedy . The population in Calumet was very large here in the UP due to the copper boom and mines. a very high number of those that died were of Finish decent . ( Buy the way, the UP has more Fins than anywhere in the world outside Helsinki. Calumet at one time was being considered for the State capital.
There has been some thought of late about having Fin Day over in the copper Country around the same time. The Fin's have always suffered a level of discrimination up here.... As a side note Arlo is still doing conserts, and played the old historical Calumet Theater last year. Wish I could have been there.
The song. "1913 Massacre," was written by Woody Guthrie, Arlo's father, in 1941. While Finns were I believe the largest ethnic group among the miners at the time, there were plenty of other nationalities in the mines too. I always assumed that the victims were mostly Italians since the tragedy happened at the Italian Hall.
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Unread 09-26-2012, 10:50 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walker46 View Post
The song. "1913 Massacre," was written by Woody Guthrie, Arlo's father, in 1941. While Finns were I believe the largest ethnic group among the miners at the time, there were plenty of other nationalities in the mines too. I always assumed that the victims were mostly Italians since the tragedy happened at the Italian Hall.
Yes, sorry for the wrong credits. Woody,s recordings have always been so hard to locate that in later years Arlo Guthrie added a more contemporary sound to his fathers songs. It's been over 40 years since I met Arlo in Chicago, Also Steve Goodman, more I forgot, Always liked Arlo's talent for uptempo folk music.So much came out of Chicago in those days....
Yes, there were a lot of Italians working in the mines, still are over Isphming way. It was my understanding that a lot of those killed were Fins. I forgot the whole story as it played out all across the Country. I know there was bad blood between the mine owners. I did hear a story about a person of interest confessing on his death bed, not sure if it was so. Many of the Fins over Marquette way never cared for the mines. Most turned to lumbering, still same today. There are so many Fin names all over, they are hard to miss as locals from Grandparents that came over in the late 1800s onndown to today. They have a very rich heritage in the western UP.
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Unread 09-27-2012, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Your computer screen.
5,415 posts, read 3,566,841 times
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What a sad tragedy! Unfortunately it is remembered for the "Don't cry 'fire' in a crowded theater" saying, when the real lesson should have been "Don't install doors on a public building that open inward" because that was the true cause of death in my opinion. If there really had been a fire, then it would have been appropriate to yell "fire", yet everyone would have died.

...but I don't mean to minimize the tragedy or the stupidity of yelling fire if there is none. There is a photo of the dead children all lying down together that is quite chilling.
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Unread 09-27-2012, 06:18 AM
 
Location: A land flowing with milk and honey...
1,443 posts, read 669,831 times
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Default Italian Hall disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
What a sad tragedy! Unfortunately it is remembered for the "Don't cry 'fire' in a crowded theater" saying, when the real lesson should have been "Don't install doors on a public building that open inward" because that was the true cause of death in my opinion. If there really had been a fire, then it would have been appropriate to yell "fire", yet everyone would have died.

...but I don't mean to minimize the tragedy or the stupidity of yelling fire if there is none. There is a photo of the dead children all lying down together that is quite chilling.
A common story regarding the fire states that the doors at the bottom of the Italian Hall's stairs opened inward. According to the story, when the fleeing party goers reached the bottom of the stairs, they pressed up against the doors which only opened inward, causing many people to be crushed. All photos of the doors suggest a double set of doors with both sets opening outward. The book Death's Door: the Truth Behind Michigan's Largest Mass Murder pointed out that the doors were not mentioned as a contributing factor at the December 1913 coroner's inquest, the 1914 subcommittee hearing, or in any of the newspaper stories of the time.[7]

Aftermath

The Italian Hall has since been demolished, and only the archway remains from that day, although a state historical marker was erected in 1987.[12] The site is a park maintained by the Keweenaw National Historical Park.[13] The marker incorrectly states that the tragedy was partially caused by inward opening doors.[14] The Michigan Department of History Arts and Libraries has indicated that it will replace the marker to correct that error.

Italian Hall disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre...

Talk:Italian Hall disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Unread 09-27-2012, 08:06 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
7,890 posts, read 7,107,050 times
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Great story on what a lot of people today never heard of . Those of you that live in copper country know quite well. There still is animosity over the tragedy , be leave it or knot. A lot of people still living had family there that fateful day in1913.
Did you hear the story about a death bed confession ?
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Unread 09-27-2012, 08:19 PM
 
3,794 posts, read 2,230,084 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
What a sad tragedy! Unfortunately it is remembered for the "Don't cry 'fire' in a crowded theater" saying, when the real lesson should have been "Don't install doors on a public building that open inward" because that was the true cause of death in my opinion. If there really had been a fire, then it would have been appropriate to yell "fire", yet everyone would have died.

...but I don't mean to minimize the tragedy or the stupidity of yelling fire if there is none. There is a photo of the dead children all lying down together that is quite chilling.

Or worse - chaining the fire exit doors shut. That's what the owners of the supper club in northern Kentucky (across from Cincinnati) did in 1978 to prevent people from sneaking into the comedy show. A fire really did break out and many died.
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Unread 09-27-2012, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Your computer screen.
5,415 posts, read 3,566,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
Or worse - chaining the fire exit doors shut. That's what the owners of the supper club in northern Kentucky (across from Cincinnati) did in 1978 to prevent people from sneaking into the comedy show. A fire really did break out and many died.
I wasn't familiar with that, so I looked it up. They didn't mention the exits being chained shut, only that there were not enough exits for the number of people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverly_Hills_Supper_Club_fire


But there certainly were instances where exits were locked: Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or: Cocoanut Grove fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or: Iroquois Theatre fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or: Rhythm Club fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or: Happy Land fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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