[MIhome]

And that is where the people are messed up,we shouldn't have to vote for the less of two evils at all,and in case you haven't noticed,there is no best candidate running on either side.

[Wha?]

There is a big problem with comparing a teacher to a software engineer.

A software engineer probably could have earned a teaching degree but its not usually the case the other way around. An engineering degree is still one of the hardest degree programs to get through. This is not true of the teaching programs. Software engineers are required to put in long hours. I actually know some who have left the profession for the easier life of teaching.

Teachers are well paid for the nice schedule they keep. I think they should start appreciating it. I am not sure teachers REALLY understand how many hours most people put in to earn what they earn (which usually isn't much more than what has been quoted here for teachers).

As far as raising a family on a teacher's salary. I think it is quite possible. You might not live like a corporate executive (or even a software engineer) but then again you are not a corporate executive or a software engineer. There are many people with degrees who make what a teacher makes - compare yourself to those people.

Again it comes down to the fact that you are not working all year. Anyone who takes the whole summer off has a hard time making ends meet.

By the way I now teach. I have a Engineering degree and had a very good engineering job but this teaching life with all it's perks is the life for me

[Wha?]

There is a big problem with comparing a teacher to a software engineer.

A software engineer probably could have earned a teaching degree but its not usually the case the other way around. An engineering degree is still one of the hardest degree programs to get through. This is not true of the teaching programs. Software engineers are required to put in long hours. I actually know some who have left the profession for the easier life of teaching.

Teachers are well paid for the nice schedule they keep. I think they should start appreciating it. I am not sure teachers REALLY understand how many hours most people put in to earn what they earn (which usually isn't much more than what has been quoted here for teachers).

As far as raising a family on a teacher's salary. I think it is quite possible. You might not live like a corporate executive (or even a software engineer) but then again you are not a corporate executive or a software engineer. There are many people with degrees who make what a teacher makes - compare yourself to those people.

Again it comes down to the fact that you are not working all year. Anyone who takes the whole summer off has a hard time making ends meet.

By the way I now teach. I have a Engineering degree and had a very good engineering job but this teaching life with all it's perks is the life for me

Originally Posted by nadmonk

People keep throwing around this $56,000/yr salary. I think we need to put that into perspective.

True, a teacher can make that, but that is the top end of the teacher salary range (depending on district some may be higher or lower). You can only make that after obtaining your Masters and completing the required number of additional credit hours. Most schools in Michigan start teachers with a salary of between $28,000-32,000. That isn't to say there aren't some that start higher, but most fall within that range. Most schools have the top pay scale for teachers at between $58,000-60,000

Also, people always use the babysitter pay for comparison, I don't think this leads to an accurate comparison.

I think a better example would be a software engineer. Both a teacher and a software engineer need to go to college and get at least a B.S. to get a position. Both need to continue their education (either through professional development courses, college classes, etc) throughout their career to stay competitive. Both jobs can be taxing and competitive with deadlines and "project" requirements.

The teacher salary range is: $28,000-58,000

Teach software engineer salary range is: $48,000-106,000

Taking into account that a teacher gets 10 weeks off for summer, the teachers make between $666-1380/wk. That isn't per week over the whole year, only those 42 weeks school is actually in session.

A software engineer makes between $923-2038. This is per week over the course of the entire year.

If we stretch that teachers salary over the entire year since most teachers opt to get paid throughout the year, their salary comes out to $538-1077 per week.

So if a teacher were to get paid at the same weekly rate as a software engineer for those 42 weeks school is in session, they would make between $38,766-85,596 per year.

And yes, as in any profession, there can be, and are, mediocre or bad teachers. Usually they are the ones that get the press, unfortunately. However, ANY profession has people like that.

So no, I don't think teachers are overpaid. I think they are skilled professionals who make less than most other professions requiring similar amounts of education and time dedication, and most people don't think twice about it.

[100%Michigan]

Michigan is a good place to get education, let alone to live. :P
As it is known by me, Michigan is rank #1, not only by the lower 48... but also Alaska and Hawii. So come live in Michigan ( Certain areas are a must to live, family favorable.) You will love it here.

[Br1234]

Originally Posted by 100%Michigan

Michigan is a good place to get education, let alone to live. :P
As it is known by me, Michigan is rank #1, not only by the lower 48... but also Alaska and Hawii. So come live in Michigan ( Certain areas are a must to live, family favorable.) You will love it here.

Your last name isn't Grandholm is it?

[celestine]

Originally Posted by joedekock

That sounds like a normal job to me! Except I work the entire year, and get paid only a little more than you teachers with a lot less benefits. So what else do you want?

Read my post earlier in this thread if you think I am just a teacher basher.

And if you have so much work to do, what are you doing posting this much on a school day during school hours? Are you planning a lesson? How about you turn off the computer and pay attention to the kids in your classroom, and actually teach them! What are we paying you to do anyway?

If I knew what school you taught at I would report you.

Rudeness. How do you know that teacher wasn't at lunch. Oh yeah as a teacher I get 15 minutes for lunch and spend it getting my classroom ready!!!

[celestine]

There are no teaching jobs in Michigan!!!!

[dennisk]

teachers get 10 weeks off a year for summer vacation PLUS at least a week at christmas, evey weekend, a week at easter, in middle/high school they actually work 4 hours a day(once you get your lesson plans worked out you're on easy street). teachers aren't accountable for putting out a decent product like those software engineers and others in private industry, teachers have GREAT benefits. i feel no pity whatsoever for teachers and i do not feel they are under aid. we need school of choice to give public schools competition. the public school system in michigan has failed and teachers backed by the union demand more and more pay and benefits while students are dropping out at a higher rate and being pushed out of the 12th grade with sub par educations. sure it may have something to do with parents using schools as babysitters but that's nexcuse to pass johnny or jane along to the next grade when they aren't ready to move on.

[JimmyInGreatLakes]

Dennisk, you are misinformed. Teachers now get at least TWELVE weeks a year in the summer with the mandatory "after Labor Day" start. And there is certainly no district that I know of that only gets one week around Christmas, it's at least two. Add on the week for Easter and usually they are allowed at least FIVE "personal days" as well. Lot of nice time off.

That's fine if that's what you choose to do, I'm not asking anyone to scale that back, however, I don't think many can argue they need any MORE money/perks.

[HighlandsGal]

Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes

Dennisk, you are misinformed. Teachers now get at least TWELVE weeks a year in the summer with the mandatory "after Labor Day" start. And there is certainly no district that I know of that only gets one week around Christmas, it's at least two. Add on the week for Easter and usually they are allowed at least FIVE "personal days" as well. Lot of nice time off.

That's fine if that's what you choose to do, I'm not asking anyone to scale that back, however, I don't think many can argue they need any MORE money/perks.

Hmmm....where are you getting this information from? A week off from Easter? In Michigan, at least the west part of the state, spring break is separate from Easter. Easter is just a weekend, with maybe the Friday before or Monday after off. Spring break is traditionally the first full week in April -- which I might add, most families go somewhere, so I would assume all the families that travel down south must be teachers, huh? And for the record, at every school I've worked at, private and public, in Michigan and in Colorado, teachers get 2 personal days, not 5. We do, however, get additional sick days (usually between 8 and 10, though I've never used more than 4). Doctor visits and children being sick are usually what those are used for. And "at least 2" weeks at Christmas??? Yeah right!! More like a week, which many "regular" business people also work flexible schedules around.

Summers are spent taking grad classes at mainly or totally the teacher's expense, along with district trainings and supplemental conferences, along with planning for the next school year. Add to that the fact that many teachers at the secondary level coach or are involved in extracurricular activities work an extra 3 or 4 hours every weekday, plus weekends for tournaments and games and practices.

It's funny....my best friends are accountants and engineers and I feel jealous with their expense accounts, company cars, long lunches, company phones, etc.

Every job has their pros and cons.....bottom line is that 99% of people could not make it as a successful teacher but they think they could or they think we are somehow overpaid.

I will never get it.