[HighlandsGal]

Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes

I'm honestly not trying to hate on teachers here. I'm trying to state the facts as I know them, they are not always right on but please, when you rebut them, state hard truths (e.g. are there any districts in this state that DON'T get two weeks at Christmas?). The pay, benefits and vacation time are relevant to discussions (especially in Michigan) where hard choices are having to be made between finite resources and quality education. And just what IS quality education? I'd say some parents and the MEA might have two different opinions as to what it is and how to measure it.

Hardest job in the world? I'd say that is somewhat subjective, however, a national guardsman in Iraq or a constuction worker making high-rise buildings might beg to differ.

I'm not saying you should be paid any less, but how much more do you deserve? Pay raises aren't even the issue any more. The cost of benefits (usually about 40% of the actual salary so that $56K avg. is actually more like $80K in total cost) is rising quite a bit and is hurting education funding the most. What will teacher's absorb vs. the taxpayers in this area? You may not appreciate this measure but one measure that sticks out to me is job turnover (not including retirements) among Michigan teachers. It's just about nil, which indicates that these are pretty good jobs paying a pretty fair wage.

Grand Rapids Catholic Secondary Schools do not get two weeks at Christmas. They are off from Dec. 24th - Jan. 2nd.

[JimmyInGreatLakes]

Originally Posted by HighlandsGal

Grand Rapids Catholic Secondary Schools do not get two weeks at Christmas. They are off from Dec. 24th - Jan. 2nd.

Actually, the discussion seems centered around public schools so a public school example would probably be more relevant.

[snoshoewalkr]

Ok, The McBain Public School Christmas break is from Dec 24 to Jan 2- a week and a half.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by snoshoewalkr

Ok, The McBain Public School Christmas break is from Dec 24 to Jan 2- a week and a half.

Figures! LOL. I went to McBain schools during my Middle School years. Really liked it to tell the truth. Even took the wife up there just to drive around town 3 or 4 months ago.

Is the town still 90% Dutch? Man they were some nice people. Lived right across the street from McBain Christian school.

[choosymom]

The reason that AVERAGE teacher salary is so high is because of the high volume of veteran teachers in the state of Michigan. That is by no means a beginning teacher salary- anywhere.

No one should be waxing intelligent on a job that they have no clue about. Most people work really hard at thier jobs, regardless of what it is. Individuals who criticize certain occupations, like teaching, usually had bad experiences- like a poor high school experience or something. No one should feel so moved as to defend their occupation to a hater. That hater will need you someday. So maybe those teacher haters out there have a certain someone in their past that they need to present with a big shiny apple and an apology... if not, have fun wallowing in your self pity.

[zygnoda]

In my local school district the maximum number of students was 35. They just lowered it to 33 or 34. My mom is a teacher and her starting salary was nowhere near 53,000. The only way to get paid that is to teach for a number of years. (I know some school districts in richer areas pay a lot more so they can get the good teachers). It is a difficult job and teacher's have a lot of obligations. They are supposed to teach, babysit, and meet government demands. I know my mom works hard to share her knowledge. She tries to help out the kids that are struggling. Just because it seems easy doesn't mean it is. Teachers fill a lot of different roles in a day. Looking in it may seem easy. Some teachers are lazy bums. It is just like any other profession.

By the way, I didn't even like school. :P

[Timeless_36]

Originally Posted by nadmonk

Try teaching a full classroom someday, really teaching. The whole shebang, do unit planning, lesson planning, managing a classroom, Tailor your lessons to match the learning style of all of the different students without denying any of them the attention that they need. Bring the struggling students up to their potential while ensuring that the gifted students reach their full potential.

Agreed there! As a Mom, I enjoy "visiting" my daughters' Kindergarten and 3rd grade classes, but I have to say "visiting" is about all I could possibly handle! LOL!

By the time my kids turned 18 months old, I have worked with them on colors, shapes, etc. so not ALL parents are out of the loop. Some of us do try. My girls are both top 3 in their classes and that makes me very proud as a Mom...and proud that they continue to excel even when I'm not there to nudge them along! My husband and I are both dedicated to making school a priority.

Every single school year, my husband volunteers for field days and field trips, while I volunteer for trips and offer any assistance to my kids' teacher, (some refuse, some do not), whether it be helping with papers, supplies, or what not, just to cut them a little break. They so deserve it! It also helps us to stay involved in their lives even when they are at school.

I give the teachers so much credit for their patience and tolerance.

[spsu]

i'm from ny and came upon this post. my wife is a teacher and i was a hater but now realize what work she puts in. People don't realize safety issues with students, irate parents(weapons) with only an underpaid security guard to protect you. Many people that complain do they have kids? Imagine dealing with 20-35 different kids per class. Also anyone with a job needed one teacher to care enough to get them to where they are now. Nowadays there might be bad teachers but even worse parents. Those people who complain with kids have given the responsibility to teachers to raise their children while they work so that is priceless if you love your children. And teachers work the whole year that would mean the children also in school the whole year. These people don't want to spend time with their kids, that summer trip. I know i didnt want to go the whole year i needed a break, at least i thought growing up. Many jobs have extra benefits we wish we had but its part of life.

[jpoole52]

someone emailed me this today, and i thought of this forum topic, and as a teacher, how angry it made me a couple of months ago.

Thought it might put some things into perspective for some of the teacher bashers....

In case anyone thought they were being short-changed in the paychecks, maybe this will help explain things:

Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year!

It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do--baby sit!

We can get that for less than minimum wage. That's right. Let's give them $3.00 an hour per child and only the hours they worked, not any of that silly planning time.

That would be $19.50 a day (7:00 AM to 3:30 (or so) PM with just 25 min. off for lunch).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

NOW...
How many do they teach in a class, 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! we're not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET'S SEE....
That's $585 x 180= $105,300 per year.

What about those special teachers and the ones with master's degrees?

Well, we could pay them minimum wage, and just to be fair, round it off to $7.00 an hour. That would be $7 x 6 1/2 hours x 30 children x 180 days = $245,700 per year.

Wait a minute--there's something wrong here!

Average teacher salary $50,000/180 days = $277/per day/30 students = $9.23/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student. A very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even try - with your help - to EDUCATE your kids!

WHAT A DEAL....
And the parents don't even have to buy us pizza!

[laureth]

I Know of teachers in Warren Cosolidated making $80,000

not bad for summers and holidays off while the rest of the state is going into bankruptcy.