[spedteach]

It is surprising to me how people post with such authority on this site about the teaching profession but get the facts wrong.

I am a teacher and I am proud of it. I do make good money but that is AFTER getting my Master's degree and teaching for over thirteen years. One thing that I can tell you for certain is that people should not get into teaching if they are in it for time off or the pay. Teaching is hard work. Many students today do not respect their parents, let alone their teachers. I work with special needs students and I come home exhausted most days. Today I had to pack up my classroom for the fourth time in three years because my classroom is moving over the summer again. How many other professions have to constanting pack up their belongings where they work? But I am happy that I have a job and in Michigan. But, before anyone thinks that teachers have it easy, please volunteer in the classroom and see what we go through on a daily basis.

The last thing that I want to say is that most teachers are unappreciated for what they do and are often unjustly critized for doing their jobs. I know that they are many professions out there and many of them are difficult. That is why I try to never critize people and their professions especially if I have not walked in their shoes.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by spedteach

It is surprising to me how people post with such authority on this site about the teaching profession but get the facts wrong.

I am a teacher and I am proud of it. I do make good money but that is AFTER getting my Master's degree and teaching for over thirteen years. One thing that I can tell you for certain is that people should not get into teaching if they are in it for time off or the pay. Teaching is hard work. Many students today do not respect their parents, let alone their teachers. I work with special needs students and I come home exhausted most days. Today I had to pack up my classroom for the fourth time in three years because my classroom is moving over the summer again. How many other professions have to constanting pack up their belongings where they work? But I am happy that I have a job and in Michigan. But, before anyone thinks that teachers have it easy, please volunteer in the classroom and see what we go through on a daily basis.

The last thing that I want to say is that most teachers are unappreciated for what they do and are often unjustly critized for doing their jobs. I know that they are many professions out there and many of them are difficult. That is why I try to never critize people and their professions especially if I have not walked in their shoes.

BTW, I never said they have it easy. I just said they don't work as long of hours as other professions and the pay is comparable.

With my education (required for my old profession) I'd be masters +30 as a teacher and that pay is 3% off from where I was as an engineer with the same years in service and education.

I'm not going into teaching for the money. I was under the impression teachers were under paid when I started this program. I had no idea how much they really make.

As to professions where you pack your room and move frequently, I had 9 different locations in 18 years. The real world works that way too only it's the price of leases that drives where you sit. Granted I only have a cubicle to decorate.

I think teachers work hard but I think they protest too much as well. During my student teaching, they complained, constantly, about wages (and I bit my tongue), about lack of supplies (gee couldn't be that the district is out of money because they pay you too much?), about lack of respect (sorry but unions are blue collar. Don't expect professional treatment when you don't hold yourself to professional standards.), about standards (OY, in the real world, standards are how you PROVE your a professional), about parents, students and administration. I felt like I was back in JR. High.

I just can't believe the amount of complaining. If it's that bad, go get a different job for crying out loud. It's worse than sibling rivalry and I'm not talking about the students.

I will give you there is a lack of respect for teachers and I really don't know why. I found that it helped to mention that I was an engineer for 18 years and to bring that up often when tying in real world applications. The students seemed to respect that I've been out in the real world and actually used this stuff. Parents were impressed by that as well but the respect level from either isn't what it was when I was in engineering.

If you want to be treated as a professional, you need to act like one. Go the extra mile. Don't hit the parking lot right behind the students. Don't openly complain about those you work with, your students or the administration. If you have issues with someone, take them up privately. Treat others as professionals. Quit whining. Work for the best wage offer you can through merit. Prove you're good at what you do. Stand on your accomplishments.

I do think we'd improve both education and respect for teachers if we went to year round schools. I think one issue is it's seen as a part time job because of the summer off. Hour wise, it's not that far off from other professions that pay comparably for an early teacher. Once you're in for a while, from what I'm told by experienced teachers, the work load falls for more like 9 to 10 hours a day on school days which puts it short of what other professions work (by my calculations, teachers have to work about 12 hours a day on school days to equal what someone who doesn't get summers off works in a full time job out in industry that pays comparably). So I thin it appears to be part time and that just isn't respected by our workaholic society.

[mofromcheboygankalamazoo]

Originally Posted by spedteach

It is surprising to me how people post with such authority on this site about the teaching profession but get the facts wrong.

I am a teacher and I am proud of it. I do make good money but that is AFTER getting my Master's degree and teaching for over thirteen years. One thing that I can tell you for certain is that people should not get into teaching if they are in it for time off or the pay. Teaching is hard work. Many students today do not respect their parents, let alone their teachers. I work with special needs students and I come home exhausted most days. Today I had to pack up my classroom for the fourth time in three years because my classroom is moving over the summer again. How many other professions have to constanting pack up their belongings where they work? But I am happy that I have a job and in Michigan. But, before anyone thinks that teachers have it easy, please volunteer in the classroom and see what we go through on a daily basis.

The last thing that I want to say is that most teachers are unappreciated for what they do and are often unjustly critized for doing their jobs. I know that they are many professions out there and many of them are difficult. That is why I try to never critize people and their professions especially if I have not walked in their shoes.

excellent post!!

when i taught in maryland...i arrived at school at 6:30am and left school at 3:30pm on a normal day and mind you when teaching there are many nights when you have to stay later for various reasons...that is 9hrs at school right there with about a 20min lunch if that....
when i got home i tried to relax (pajamas right away!) then i'd have to lesson plan, grade papers, and or write report card comments and do other paperwork this would take around 2hrs or so...so that is an official 11 hr. day....then on the weekends my work was far from over!.....

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by mofromcheboygankalamazoo

excellent post!!

when i taught in maryland...i arrived at school at 6:30am and left school at 3:30pm on a normal day and mind you when teaching there are many nights when you have to stay later for various reasons...that is 9hrs at school right there with about a 20min lunch if that....
when i got home i tried to relax (pajamas right away!) then i'd have to lesson plan, grade papers, and or write report card comments and do other paperwork this would take around 2hrs or so...so that is an official 11 hr. day....then on the weekends my work was far from over!.....

Would you care to detail your typical day? What did you do with that hour before school, your prep hour and that hour after school that left you 2 more hours of work to take home on a regular basis? How many years did you have in that it took you 5 hours per day to prep? I see that kind of work load in new teachers but not in ones with years of experience. It appears to be short lived. From what I hear from veteran teachers, once you're past the first few years, it tapers off to a more normal daily schedule but that's really true of all industry. I worked all kinds of hours my first couple of years as an engineer, then the new kids took that over. As I've said before, adjusted for all the time off, early year teachers are working the kinds of hours their professional counter parts are. I don't see that in veteran teachers who often only have to pull out their previous year's lesson plan books and tweak things.

My issue right now is districts who are cash strapped have no way out. In industry, part of pay is tied to performance. If the company doesn't perform, you don't earn that part. Schools have no way out other than to cut services to students because they're held to those higher rates of pay. Over the past 10 years, there have been some major give backs in industry but none in teaching.

Also, professionals are paid on merit not years of service. Years of servcie can mean that you got lucky. I really think we need to go to merit pay for teachers. Look at what they do, how well they teach, how their students do and decide who's worth paying more and who isn't. If you save the rewards for the good teachers, the ones who choose the profession for he summers off will leave (hopeully).

I have to say I'm impressed with the teachers at my children's charter school. Much more professional than the teachers at their old public school. But they do have merit pay and if they don't do their job, there's no union to hide behind. That's why I find working in a charter so attractive. I've always stood on my abilities no the shoulders of a union.

[mofromcheboygankalamazoo]

yes i was a new teacher...but many of my counterparts were at school the same times (idon't know what they took home though)...I was on the math committee, and the science committe and the reading committee so sometimes my hour after school was spent at meetings. the half hour that I had for planning during the day while students were at specials was spent in team meetings and also setting up the room for the subject after specials. in the morning i was making copies (which would happen at my other planning times too) and gathering supplies i would need for the first few subjects.
At home i was reading the upcoming story for what they were going to read-i was doing research online-i was finding pictures to go with th espelling words since the vast majority of my students were special needs and english language learners. Throughout those times i was also calling home, meeting with the ESOL teacher, the Special Education teacher, or the parent Laison to figure out what to do with certain students. Oh yeah throughout those times, i'd grade papers.

You keep talking about "merit" pay as well. Now sure i agree to a certain extent-being a new teacher i was observed all the time-so i believe that via my observations and critiques i was doing a good job.
BUT, when i have a classroom of 11 non-english speakers and 3 exceptional students and no classroom aides, then how well my students do is not entirely based on how well i teach. So my question is How EXACTLY can you show merit-sure reviews and observations are good, but what else can you scientifically prove! especially when you teach at a school like what i taught at before??
I've never met a teacher who "hides" behind a union...sure there are a few out there somewhere but that is an overgeneralization!

[JessicaGM08]

I didn't read ALLthe posts...sorry. however, the first statement would be nice is there were actually teaching jobs out of the inner cities. I like a challenge, but I also like safety.
We will probably be moving back to Michigan after the economy improves...

Also, I hate to say it, but veteran teachers who do not have a large workload seem to not be focused on the individual needs of students. Each year and each class is different and teachers should not always pull out the same worksheets for every child every year. Therefore, as a teacher, I agree- there is a lot of work and research to be done if you want to call yourself a "good" teacher and make sure every child is engaged every single day.
Now, a great teacher also has to make daily phone calls and emails to get parents interested or to keep parents that may be too interested/critical of their child at bay so their child can learn on their own. If you aren't a teacher, don't criticize until you've been there.

Jess
new 7th grade Language Arts teacher who is also certified in El. Ed.
moving to Frederick County, MD

[JessicaGM08]

oh- and a lot of teachers I know- especially at the elementary level- do not take a lunch longer than it takes to heat up leftovers and munch them while students are in your room or while conferencing quickly with other teachers or going over a lesson before it's time for the kids to come back again. geez.
Do doctors get criticized for making too much? Do they go in it for the money? Teachers don't medically save lives, but I think they save lives in a different context by opening up new worls to students that they, otherwise, may not see.

[KarenBo]

I don't live in Michigan but I am a teacher. Perhaps the reason that some teachers come across as whiny and complaining is because some (but not all) are. It could also be that unlike other professions, teachers are constantly put under pressure to explain and defend our salaries.

I don't know what exactly an engineer does every hour of their work day, and that's why most people won't call other professions out on their salaries. Because we've all been students at some point, everyone thinks they know exactly what teachers do. They think, "I could do that" and that all we do is sit in front of a class and talk. If it was such an easy job, everyone would do it.

There are lots of professions that are overpaid but somehow its the teaching profession that gets pointed to, and most criticized. There are probably some teachers that are overpaid for the work they do, but not all of us. I'm not going to defend my work or my salary. I know what I do. You don't. You only think you do. Every teacher, like every student, is different.

When you make generalizations about any group, you are indulging your ignorance and showing your prejudice (preconceived notions).

I love my job. I believe that I'm good at it, and so do my supervisors. They believe I'm worth my salary. As far as I'm concerned those are the opinions that matter.

[malamute]

The problem with teaching now is that it pays so well that many people only get into it because of the money, not because they are dedicated to that line of work.

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by malamute

The problem with teaching now is that it pays so well that many people only get into it because of the money, not because they are dedicated to that line of work.

Seriously? I just graduated last year and many of the people I went to school with were getting degrees in education, hoping to go into teaching. Not a single one of them wanted to go into it because of the money. In fact most believed that teachers were poorly paid (which is something people say a lot, even though this is a debatable opinion) and they knew that they would probably have to either sub for years and years or move out of state to find a job. A few liked the idea of summers off, but almost everyone I knew who was going into teaching was doing so because they loved it. Most of the people I knew who were going into a specific field specifically because they were drawn to the money were going into nursing. Let's face it - average starting salary for a public school teacher with a minimum of a bachelors degree (often having to get a masters as well) in MI is $34,377 according to this site. (Gee and I thought people on this forum were saying the avg MI teacher made over $100K a year, but somehow that site says considerably different!...imagine that!) - the average entry-level nurse makes around $40K a year according to this site - and says that nurses with masters degrees can make $80K. I can't find any sources that say teachers with masters degrees make $80K. So it would seem that if someone were choosing a field specifically because they were motivated by money, they'd go for nursing, which has higher salaries for fewer years of schooling on average and far more job openings even right here in MI.

At least people I know loved the IDEA of teaching...the reality is often a different story. I have an aunt and an uncle who both went to college to become teachers because they thought they would love to inspire young minds and "make a difference" etc. My aunt quit during student teaching because she hated it so much. My uncle lasted 3-4 years teaching in an inner-city school before realizing that he wasn't able to inspire anyone or make a difference because none of the students nor their parents seemed to care. But again - they weren't drawn to the field because of the money. I've known literally dozens of people who have gone into the field and never knew a single one who was motivated by the money, probably because as I said, the widespread myth/belief is out there that teachers are really poorly paid.