[Bydand]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

blah, blah, blah

Well it looks like another one for the ignore bin. Useless conspiracy theorist drivel gets hard to plow through, kind of like mucking out a cow barn. Too much cow crap to shovel through to get to the tiny scrap that is worth reading or even slightly true.

[mofromcheboygankalamazoo]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Well it looks like another one for the ignore bin. Useless conspiracy theorist drivel gets hard to plow through, kind of like mucking out a cow barn. Too much cow crap to shovel through to get to the tiny scrap that is worth reading or even slightly true.

thank you for helping me not respond

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by mofromcheboygankalamazoo

This really makes zero sense. I am a teacher and I disagree with this, but especially from experience. My brother is an aerospace engineer working for NASA, he went to school in the SAME classes as people who are welders now, who are actors now, and who are masons now..........I totally disagree with what you are trying to say teachers do!

Yeah, a NASA engineer sounds cool and mysterious even though I know a few aerospace engineers driving trucks for living, however, from elite point of view a NASA engineer isn't much different than a mason, both are wage units, both are manipulated and kept in line, both need to be trained to accept their lot when discarded, etc.. The only difference (aside wages and social status) is that a mason will be told that he cannot make a good living (find a job) because he's "not college educated", while discarded NASA engineer will be told that he's not up to date or he doesn't have a Ph.D., while discarded Ph.D. will be told that .... it's always something. Yet, it's highly unlikely that a single graduate of 57 elite schools (no matter how dumb) will become a mason or even a NASA engineer

"Education" is a tool for maintaining social order, obedience training and social control, in addition to babysitting (while parents selling their arses), age segregation, RRR and all the good stuff, I don't see how one can deny it. If teachers (who supposedly teach all those critical thinking skills) don't see it critically, well...


Lastly, most Americans understand "education" as something that can get them a (good paying) job, period. That's the main point of education. If all that well rounded, free thinking stuff would be goal#1, American universities would not be among the most conformist places on the face of Earth. Everybody is so obsessed with getting a job, there is no time left for anything else. If the system managed to subdue radicalism and idealism of youth, what can I say more.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Well it looks like another one for the ignore bin. Useless conspiracy theorist drivel gets hard to plow through, kind of like mucking out a cow barn. Too much cow crap to shovel through to get to the tiny scrap that is worth reading or even slightly true.

Oh, I can see now the light of critical free thinking spirit and well rounded views you picked up in MI schools . Excellent illustration of my points.

Among useless conspiracy theorists are John Tailor Gatto (an award winning teacher himself) with his "Underground History of American Education", Jeff Schmidt with "A Critical Look at Salaried Professionals and the Soul-Battering System That Shapes Their Lives" and so on. But I doubt your roundednessness ever heard of those.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

Oh, I can see now the light of critical free thinking spirit and well rounded views you picked up in MI schools . Excellent illustration of my points.

Among useless conspiracy theorists are John Tailor Gatto (an award winning teacher himself) with his "Underground History of American Education", Jeff Schmidt with "A Critical Look at Salaried Professionals and the Soul-Battering System That Shapes Their Lives" and so on. But I doubt your roundednessness ever heard of those.

Heard of them, saw them, don't think they are worth the effort put into them frankly. And I think you mean John Taylor Gatto. Free/critical thinking doesn't mean blindly following ANY half-baked idea that comes along just because it is different than the norm. Free/critical thinking means being able to look at such ideas and forming an opinion as the whether or not they are any good. Most of the doom-and-gloom predictions, conspiracy theories, and other bizarre ideas are not worth listening to.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Heard of them, saw them, don't think they are worth the effort put into them frankly. And I think you mean John Taylor Gatto. Free/critical thinking doesn't mean blindly following ANY half-baked idea that comes along just because it is different than the norm. Free/critical thinking means being able to look at such ideas and forming an opinion as the whether or not they are any good. Most of the doom-and-gloom predictions, conspiracy theories, and other bizarre ideas are not worth listening to.

It doesn't sound like you read a single page, you could not write a generic "shrug if off" sentences had you read something. I didn't notice any predictions in those books (not speaking of doom and gloomy ones), there are only observations (darn accurate) on the current state of affairs. Neither author is a conspiracy theorist, not even near, if we to take David Icke as a golden standard. Besides no true free thinker would call anything "a conspiracy theory" because labeling is not the way free thinkers settle arguments, it's more of media and propaganda realm. Call something a "conspiracy theory" and there is no need for in depth look, opponents views are summarily dismissed, everything is simple and clear. It's a clever trick, works really well, next time you'll watch talking heads or news pay attention.

[Passion2serve]

A lot of "assuming going on in that cynical mind. If anything is lacking in todays education, it is critical thought. When government encrouches on education, teachers have less to say about their classroom. ie: Teaching students how to pass a test vs how to think critically. What does this have to do with teacher salaries, you may ask? When there is high trust the cost is low and the efficiency is high. Conversely, if trust is low,costs are high and efficiency is low. Somehow education needsto stop teaching political agendas and return to critical thought and independent, scientific enquiries.

[Sparrow_temp]

I don't think we need to teach critical thinking as much as the basics in K-12 education. Teach students how to read at an appropriate grade level -- test them on reading comprehension. Teach them basic sentence composition/diagramming. Teach them to spell -- sorry no spell checkers until at least high school. Teach them math -- no calculators allowed until at least middle school and preferably high school. They need to memorize multiplication tables up to 12x12. Teach them basic history and science. Eliminate any computers in education until high school.

I want to see kids be able to pass standardized tests to demonstrate that they have mastered the material in order to advance to the next grade. No social advancement; forget the no child left behind nonsense. Have the teacher teach for the test if they have to. I'd at least have some confidence that they were learning something of value at the end of the year.

I don't want to see political indoctrination like we've seen on some of the children's Obama videos. I don't want to see plays or projects which seem to be more for the parents than the students. In any case, mark me down for one who would rather see students trained to pass a standardized test than to critically think. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive though but standardized testing gives an objective measure of how well a teacher is doing too.

Originally Posted by Passion2serve

A lot of "assuming going on in that cynical mind. If anything is lacking in todays education, it is critical thought. When government encrouches on education, teachers have less to say about their classroom. ie: Teaching students how to pass a test vs how to think critically. What does this have to do with teacher salaries, you may ask? When there is high trust the cost is low and the efficiency is high. Conversely, if trust is low,costs are high and efficiency is low. Somehow education needsto stop teaching political agendas and return to critical thought and independent, scientific enquiries.

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by Passion2serve

A lot of "assuming going on in that cynical mind. If anything is lacking in todays education, it is critical thought. When government encrouches on education, teachers have less to say about their classroom. ie: Teaching students how to pass a test vs how to think critically. What does this have to do with teacher salaries, you may ask? When there is high trust the cost is low and the efficiency is high. Conversely, if trust is low,costs are high and efficiency is low. Somehow education needsto stop teaching political agendas and return to critical thought and independent, scientific enquiries.

How about teaching critical thinking skills to PASS the standardized tests?

[jaynarie]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

I don't think we need to teach critical thinking as much as the basics in K-12 education. Teach students how to read at an appropriate grade level -- test them on reading comprehension. Teach them basic sentence composition/diagramming. Teach them to spell -- sorry no spell checkers until at least high school. Teach them math -- no calculators allowed until at least middle school and preferably high school. They need to memorize multiplication tables up to 12x12. Teach them basic history and science. Eliminate any computers in education until high school.

I want to see kids be able to pass standardized tests to demonstrate that they have mastered the material in order to advance to the next grade. No social advancement; forget the no child left behind nonsense. Have the teacher teach for the test if they have to. I'd at least have some confidence that they were learning something of value at the end of the year.

I don't want to see political indoctrination like we've seen on some of the children's Obama videos. I don't want to see plays or projects which seem to be more for the parents than the students. In any case, mark me down for one who would rather see students trained to pass a standardized test than to critically think. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive though but standardized testing gives an objective measure of how well a teacher is doing too.

Please tell me you are being facetious. Sarcasm does not always translate in text, and I am having a hard time deciding if this is a serious statement or not.