[tjay]

Originally Posted by gmmhastings

Let's face it, we have no leadership. And by the way, do you think any of the politicians mentioned above take the time to read posts on this site. If they did, do you think it would make any difference? They're too detached from the real problems that face Michigan. Michigan tradition is alive and well, however in the meantime, the rest of the world is passing us by. This is the only place I've lived where nothing has really changed in the last 20 years. We need to evolve to progress. It's not only politicians, but many people who reside here. They're stuck in their old ways and don't want to change. Without change, we are surely doomed. I've tried to change the antiquated thinking of many here, but my efforts get little attention.

agreed. partisan politics DON'T WORK. when are people going to realize that? they spend most of their time trying to 'beat' the other party than actually DOING ANYTHING. when are people going to realize that NO politician is there because they 'care'. the entire government is completely CORRUPT. take out the money & benefits and who would be left? nobody. greed runs our country, not democrats or republicans. complaining about one party is such a waste of time. its like fighting over your favorite football team.

i also agree that people need to buck up and change. the world is changing and its not going to cater to their old fashioned ideas. people who worked for the auto industry never had to go to college, thought a pension and the best insurance was the 'norm'. maybe in a world where greed didn't rule. but greed is here to stay and just be happy that you got it while you could. people stuck living in the past are not going to help our economy any more than the corrupted government.

[Sparrow_temp]

I generally don't want my politicians doing anything. When they do stuff, stupid laws get passed. Give me a part-time legislature and laws that have a sunset timer. If they want to do something -- they can repass the existing laws rather than dream up new ones...

[BrytEydBelle]

I voted for Granholm because I am thoroughly disgusted with the reprehensible actions of the republican party. I see all the problems in the state, but I don't think those can really be attributed to Granholm. The unemployment, etc. is primarily due to the free trade agreement, which destroyed the manufacturing jobs in the USA that Michigan's economy was based on. If we could get a president in who would end the free trade agreement, then businesses would have some motivation to bring the jobs back here. However, due to the Republican's fear mongering and the nations increasing stupidity and sheeplike behavior, the only person talking seriously about bringing the jobs back is Nader, who will never see the white house.

[Coldjensens]

Wow that is a lot of generalizations!

Every member of the republican party engages in reprehensible actions?

You think terminating the free trade agreement will bring back manufacturing jobs? We cannot change the economics of the world by rejecting trade treaties.

In China and Mexico, people will work for a few dollars a day. In the US unskilled laborers believe that they are entitled to $50k to $70K a year, plus retirement benefits, medical, paid vacation, overtime, etc. I am not saying that they should not get those things, but they will not get jobs like that anymore. Until foreign workers demand and get more money and benefits, and US workers demand/get less, manufacturing jobs will not return here.

If American made cars cost $80,000 while foreign made cars cost $30,000, no one will buy cars made here. Forcing up the price of foreign made cars here will only result in no one buying cars. Or they will go to Canada and smuggle them in like they do with toilets.

The simple fact is that our manufacturing labor can no longer compete. the jobs will go where the cheap labor is. No one here can work for the wages in China or Mexico. Even with import taxes and the cost of shipping, the price for foreign made goods is not going to come close to the price for US made goods.

I once thought that the simple solution was for Americans to go ahead and pay more for goods. We all really could get by with one American made television rather than 3 or 6 televisions made in China. The problem is that the difference is so huge, that no one could buy many of the staple goods if all of the parts were made here. We had all of the manufacturing jobs because no one else had the knowledge or the capital to make things as efficiently as we could. we controlled the prices of some items worldwide. We had a higher standard of living than any other country that eventually priced us out of competition. Now we do not.

The bottom line is that in order to bring manufacturing jobs back here, we would need workers willing to work for wages that would require them to live in substandard overcrowded housing, have no TV, no car, no cable, no medical care etc. That is the only way that our workers can compete with workers who live this way.

Further, to bring manufacturing jobs back here, we need a huge infusion of capital to built/re-built factories. Where is that going to come from?

The solution is not to bring down our workers. we either need to wait until the standard of living in other countries increases (and thus wage levels increase) or move on to providing the world with something other than manufactured goods.

[sugarbeet]

It's interesting how people love to bash Granholm, when anyone with a modicum of understanding about how goverment works knows that no single person has enough power to throw an entire state into disarray.

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Originally Posted by sugarbeet

It's interesting how people love to bash Granholm, when anyone with a modicum of understanding about how goverment works knows that no single person has enough power to throw an entire state into disarray.

Although Sugarbeet's quote is true, some people do in fact have much more power to influence things on the macro level. People at the top can shape policy.

I find it interesting that a lot of people tend to forget exactly who's policy did what. As an example, a lot of Michigan folks are really upset about free trade and say that it is, of course, Bush's fault. Please remember Mr. Free Trade, Bill Clinton, is the great NAFTA supporter who told us how great that would be. Well, it is very complex, and there are pros and cons, but remember, Bill Clinton was the spearhead of the NAFA agreement while he was in office.

Then there was the question at the Republican debate over gays in the military asked by a Clinton staffer. Does anyone remember that Bill Clinton was the father of "Don't ask, Don't tell" and not George Bush?

On the local level, I see so many posts that say about our current Governor "Well, at least she is trying" but about our prior governor "It's clear he screwed up everything". I'm a big believer in fact. Lets just put out the facts and not emotions on the table and see which policies make sense.

[gmmhastings]

Several months ago a good friend of mine moved his family back to Washington State where they resided for about 8 years prior to moving to Michigan. His wife's family is from here and she wanted to be with them again. Shortly after moving here, they both realized they had a made a big mistake. They both felt that Michigan was a beautiful state but that the Michigan mind-set had a great deal to be desired.

Evidently, they had read the results of a survey related to jobs and higher education. When those surveyed were asked whether the auto industry was going to recover, most answered 'yes' and when asked if they thought higher education was a key to economic recovery, most answered 'no'.

I was unable to find out what survey they read, however their decision to move was based on the results of that survey. They were both gainfully employed in Washington State shortly (w/i about 2 weeks) after settling in there.

It's so easy to blame the politicians and others for the economic situation here in Michigan, but I honestly think it has a lot to do with the people who live here. I would say that Politicians and Government officials are corrupt and for all practical purposes, worthless. We can't however, blame everyone else and not think about what we are contributing to the mess here in Michigan.

[Coldjensens]

The survey is interesting in light of the number of high quality colleges in Michigan for the size of the state. The problem is not a lack of higher education amongst our young residents, the problem is that they leave the state when they complete their eduction. They want to go somewhere more exciting.

[gmmhastings]

Yes, I've heard that also but I can't really blame them. I've been a professional musician all of my life and as a young man, remember the many places a person could go for live entertainment in Lansing and other places around Michigan. This state was jumpin'. It was a fun place to be. I played in most of them back then but after a tour in the military, resided in Northern California for many years. I hate to say this, but Lansing is stagnant these days, compared to other cities (and I've been to many). There simply isn't much to do here anymore, especially for a young person. I'm older now and I'm sorry to say that even I find the Lansing area to be very dull.

[Timeless_36]

Originally Posted by Miborn

With Mi in such a state who voted for her?

We did not vote for her either time. When we seen she had gotten the position again ... all we could say was " Oh my gosh here we go again! " And here we are stuck in a hole she helped put us in. If Michigan keeps on the way it is, we'll have to leave.