[Great Lakes Pirate]

Suydam... only 350 miles?

Try it in January.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by suydam

I think that's an unfair comparison though.

St. Paul, Minnesota is only 350 miles away....so yeah, Houghton is isolated from Detroit....but it's as close to a huge metropolitan area as The Soo is to Detroit....far, but not totally isolated.

I agree with you on this point suydam.

I also have to take exception about the UP being more rural than Maine. I graduated from the Soo, and have lived in Michigan most of my life. I recently moved to Maine to help family, and cannot wait to get back to Michigan soil! if you go 10 miles from my house right now in Northern Maine I can drive literally hundreds of miles on dirt roads that are not maintained by either State or County. They are all private roads built and maintained by the Logging industry, there are NO public roads in the entire North-West portion of the state. You have access to these private roads, though you are entirely on your own out there. No Police patrols, no gas stations, nothing. You can go for hours and hours and not see a house, building, power pole, NOTHING. IF you separate the UP from the LP then to make a fair comparison you HAVE to take at least from Bangor south out of the numbers for Maine as well. Never have I seen such wilderness areas as this in Michigan. I love Michigan and cannot wait to get back there so this isn't a pissing contest because I think Maine is better. I do NOT! I do like the correct information to be out there though. I love the UP and think it is a great place with great people, but it isn't more rural than the northern half of Maine. Make fair comparisons because the UP can stand on it's own merits, without having to resort to facts and figures that while being true, doesn't tell the whole story.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Great Lakes Pirate

Suydam... only 350 miles?

Try it in January.

Been there did that, 350 miles is 350 miles. It isn't like we are hitching the horses up to the wagon anymore. A few crappy days a month doesn't change the distance to be covered.

[Great Lakes Pirate]

350 miles at an average summer travel speed of 70mph = 5 hours
350 miles at an average winter travel speed of 50 mph = 7 hours

Maine population aprox 1,274,000
Total land area aprox 33,000 square miles
Population density about 41.3/sq mile

UP population aprox 317,000
Total land area aprox 16,000 sq miles
Population density about 19.3/sq mile

# Starbucks in Maine = 28
# Starbucks in UP = 1

[suydam]

Originally Posted by Great Lakes Pirate

350 miles at an average summer travel speed of 70mph = 5 hours
350 miles at an average winter travel speed of 50 mph = 7 hours

That's cool man. I totally agree on those distances and travel times.

My email merely pointed out that Houghton->Detroit was not an appropriate measure of isolation when Minneapolis/St. Paul is much closer than Detroit.

I should add, Green Bay (211 miles) and Duluth (217 miles) both have metro-populations of over a quarter-million (equivalent to Kalamazoo/Portage here in Michigan).

All I'm saying is this: Houghton is not Barrow. It's a nice city, on an incredible lake, with plenty of outdoors activities surrounding it. It's not an oasis in the wilderness though...it's just a nice town on an incredibly cool peninsula sparsely populated by nice people.

Anyway, I'm done...this is way off topic. Sorry.

So, to get it back ON topic....
One way the UP and Alaska (southern alaska) are very similar is in their displays of the Aurora Borealis.
Despite the fact that the UP is no further north than Seattle, the way to the northern lights seem to work, we seem to get them more often in the UP than anywhere else across the lower 48. As this image demonstrates: http://www.gi.alaska.edu/aurora_pred...images/270.jpg

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Great Lakes Pirate

350 miles at an average summer travel speed of 70mph = 5 hours
350 miles at an average winter travel speed of 50 mph = 7 hours

Maine population aprox 1,274,000
Total land area aprox 33,000 square miles
Population density about 41.3/sq mile

UP population aprox 317,000
Total land area aprox 16,000 sq miles
Population density about 19.3/sq mile

# Starbucks in Maine = 28
# Starbucks in UP = 1

And yet again you are comparing the entire state of Maine to only the UP. The nearest Starbucks to me is a 3 1/2 hour drive away in Bangor. Comparing areas from just data sets collected online can be very deceiving, Do you know anything about Maine? I mean northern Maine by that. Anything Bangor and south is not Northern Maine. I live 15 miles away from the largest town north of Bangor, it has just under 10,000 people. If you want to go outside State boundaries the closest city over 30,000 is Fredericton, New Brunswick. Bangor is 35,000, not by anybodys stretch of the imagination is it a bigger city. I thought I knew some about this state until I sat foot in it. Online stats do not tell the whole tale as you should know. I happen to be here, I drive this area, I also have driven the UP for years. Stand by your stats if you want, YOU ARE WRONG. Look at a map, see any towns in the north-west section of Maine? Look at a map again and find that size area anywhere in the UP with nothing but trees. Cannot be done, period.

Find the population of Aroostook, Piscataquis, and Somerset Counties, Maine, those make up most of the northern portion of the state. Then do your comparison. That would be fair, if you don't want to then compare the entire state of Michigan to the entire state of Maine.

[AndreaW]

Originally Posted by Great Lakes Pirate

This isolation retains, and attracts, people who -- like Alaskans -- don't give a hoot about the trappings and attractions of city life.

Lifestyle wise, you will find friendly neighbors, but the Finnish concept of Sisu is alive and well here. Yes, the UP is the community -- but one made of individuals. Weak individuals will not fiind a lot support.

Sisu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you are steadfastedly independant, you'll find yourself happily so in the UP.

No wonder we're so attracted to the UP! It sounds great!

We lived in Alaska several years. I lived both on the Kenai, (in Soldotna) and in Wasilla. I liked Soldotna better. The Mat-Su valley was beautiful but is apparently growing quite a bit and getting more of the box stores. Most everyone I met seemed really nice. We have heard that there are more to the seasons on the UP than in Alaska, as in more of a summer and fall.

[Bydand]

Just in case you are wondering:
Aroostook County Maine: 6,671.54 square miles, population 73,008
Piscataguis County: 3,966.22 Square miles, population 17,585
Somerset County: 3,926.5 square miles, population 52,249

These are taken from the US Census Bureau 2006 figures Maine QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Total population 142,842
Land area: 14,564 square miles

Actually makes a fair comparison for size to the UP.

People per square mile: 9.8 and most of that is situated on the fringes of that area.

[gnab gib]

Originally Posted by Bydand

I love the UP and think it is a great place with great people, but it isn't more rural than the northern half of Maine.

But it's still rural and relatively isolated, which as far as I'm concerned is NOT a bad thing!

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by YoAdrian

But it's still rural and relatively isolated, which as far as I'm concerned is NOT a bad thing!

Oh me either. I love being away from the masses of people trying to keep up with the neighbors, worrying about what year your car is, what brand jeans your kids are wearing, that is nonsense. I'm not saying it is a booming populated place that there isn't a chance to get out and hear the cry of a Loon over a pristine lake without another soul in sight. To watch the Northern Lights dancing over Lake Superior is the best thing in the world in my opinion. I love the UP, Maine isn't one of the top 100 favorite places for me. I would dearly love to see Alaska! Not too sure about the big brown bears up there though....