[Tekkie]

I don't understand the reason for Michigan's terrible roads. When I lived in Colorado, the roads were so much better than in MI. It gets just as cold and snowy there as it does here in MI. Not to mention, the temps fluctuate much more in Denver. It can be 25 degrees in the morning and 70 degrees in the afternoon. I do not believe they use salt for their roads though. I just spoke to a friend who has lived in Minneapolis for the past couple years for his residency. He also made note of the superior quality of the roads up there. And as we all know, MN is pretty much a frozen tundra for six months of the year. I'm not sure what they use as a de-icer, but I'm guessing it's not salt.

This leaves me wondering why MI hasn't caught up to the rest of the country in terms of the quality of our roads. Is it really the salt that does this much damage to our roads? If so, why don't we switch over to a product that has less deteriorating effects? It can't be more economical than having to replace roads literally every five years or so. And I can't believe that as taxpayers, people don't demand more considering the wear and tear these roads contribute to our cars. Anyone knowledgeable as to why our roads seem to be far inferior to those of other equally as cold states? Is it the quality of concrete they use? Is it that lack of funding for adequate maintenance? Is it the salt that we use that contributes to this? Please share your insights.

[Tiger1833]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

I don't understand the reason for Michigan's terrible roads. When I lived in Colorado, the roads were so much better than in MI. It gets just as cold and snowy there as it does here in MI. I do not believe they use salt for their roads though. I just spoke to a friend who has lived in Minneapolis for the past couple years for his residency. He also made note of the superior quality of the roads up there. And as we all know, MN is pretty much a frozen tundra for six months of the year. I'm not sure what they use as a de-icer, but I'm guessing it's not salt.

This leaves me wondering why MI hasn't caught up to the rest of the country in terms of the quality of our roads. Is it really the salt that does this much damage to our roads? If so, why don't we switch over to a product that has less deteriorating effects? It can't be more economical than having to replace roads literally every 5 years or so. And I can't believe that as taxpayers people here don't demand more considering the wear and tear these roads contribute to our cars. Anyone knowledgeable as to why our roads seem to be far inferior to those of other equally as cold states? Please share your insights.

I remember hearing that it's because MI has a lot of salt deposits, so it's readily and cheaply available.

[Bydand]

I don't think it is a matter of what we put ON the roads, but rather what is UNDER the roads. While other Northern tier states may have the temp swings, and other environmental similarities to MI a lot of our State sits on sand and less rock and different soil than the others do. Given the combination of sand/environment/traffic we have, the roads tend to deteriorate at a different rate than other Northern/cold states.

That being said, I also don't think MI has that bad of roads outside the SE corner compared to other Northern States. I lived in far Northern Maine for many, many years and can tell you from experience rural MI has better roads than rural Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, & Mass.

[Coldjensens]

The reason is political. Michigan has not been able to afford repairs of the roads for decades. Rather than shifting money form other programs or increasing taxes or fees (both of which woudl be terribly unpopular) politicians have been putting band aids on the roads for about 50 years. Now it is catching up with us.

Some problems go back even further. Many older roads were made of logs. Later, grave was piled on top of the old log roads. IN some cases, pavement was then laid on top of the gravel. A hundred years later or so, the logs are finally rotting away. Some even break in parts which then push up through the road. Repairing these roads requires removal of all the layers/logs, excavating to good soil and compacting in new soil and/or a gravel bed to support a new road surface.

Then you have bridges. Bridges have been patched together for decades. Now over a thousands of them are crumbling. Bridges are very expensive to replace. Few people realize how many there are. They cross over them without ever realizing "This is a bridge." I frequently cross 10 - 20 bridges on any given drive to somewhere.

Unlike States that have pass through traffic paying tolls (like Indiana and Ohio), we have to pay for the roads ourselves. Most of the gas tax goes to roads, but not the sales tax on gas. However with better mileage cars, hybrids, electrics and reduced travel due to high gas prices, less money is being generated to meet an increase need and expense. The gas tax is a fixed amount, rather than a percentage like sales tax, thus, when gas prices go up, road revenue actually goes down. Meanwhile the cost of materials and labor has gone through the roof. Unlike many states a large part of our road budge has to to to snow removal. UNtil recently, road moeny was distributed farily evenly. Thus, unused roads get as much attention as heavily used roads. As a result, many of our rural roads are in far better shape than our urban and suburban roads, especially up north.

Couple all of that with a climate and ground conditions that regularly destroy roads and you have a first rate mess on your hands.

[Tiger1833]

Originally Posted by magellan

Who cares, just fix them already. Jeesus H Crist on a popsicle stick.

They are always fixing the roads in MI. The repairs and the traffic it brings never ends.

[michigan83]

Originally Posted by Bydand

I don't think it is a matter of what we put ON the roads, but rather what is UNDER the roads. While other Northern tier states may have the temp swings, and other environmental similarities to MI a lot of our State sits on sand and less rock and different soil than the others do. Given the combination of sand/environment/traffic we have, the roads tend to deteriorate at a different rate than other Northern/cold states.

That being said, I also don't think MI has that bad of roads outside the SE corner compared to other Northern States. I lived in far Northern Maine for many, many years and can tell you from experience rural MI has better roads than rural Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, & Mass.

I think Bydand's answer is the most accurate so far.

Michigan's roads are built on different soil than most other Northern states. Especially in Southeast Michigan, there is a lot of low-lying, marshy areas that are pretty much the worst possible place to build a road in the first place. Not only do we have the frost/freeze cycle, but the ground is mushy to begin with. Combined with the heavy truck traffic, funding issues, etc, it is pretty much hopeless in SE Michigan to have good roads for very long. For example, Ann Arbor is a highly regarded place, but the roads are so awful there that I'm not sure if I would even consider living there just for that reason.

Bydand is also right about the roads being better in the rest of the state, though. Go north and west where there is better ground and less traffic and things start looking better. Unfortunately, half the states population lives in the part of the state that is the worst for road-building.

[Tekkie]

I've noticed that some cities in Metro Detroit seem to have better roads than others. For example, I currently live in Madison Heights. The roads here are generally terrible. They are finally fixing up John R between 11 Mile and 12 Mile, which was equivalent to driving off road. However, right next door, in Royal Oak, the roads are significantly better. As an avid cyclist, I probably take note of the conditions more than most automobile drivers. Having lived in Denver for the past five years, I was spoiled with an abundance of smooth roads to ride on. I have a hybrid bike with a front shock and never had to use it Colorado. Now, however, I have it on at all times to give me a the perceived feeling of a smooth ride.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by Tiger1833

They are always fixing the roads in MI. The repairs and the traffic it brings never ends.

*language warning*


Pure Michigan: Construction - YouTube

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

I've noticed that some cities in Metro Detroit seem to have better roads than others. For example, I currently live in Madison Heights. The roads here are generally terrible. They are finally fixing up John R between 11 Mile and 12 Mile, which was equivalent to driving off road. However, right next door, in Royal Oak, the roads are significantly better. As an avid cyclist, I probably take note of the conditions more than most automobile drivers. Having lived in Denver for the past five years, I was spoiled with an abundance of smooth roads to ride on. I have a hybrid bike with a front shock and never had to use it Colorado. Now, however, I have it on at all times to give me a the perceived feeling of a smooth ride.

I think they upgrade roads based on how much traffic they get. That or it's entirely up to the discretion of the municipality that's doing the repaving.

Here in Eastpointe, Kelly between Toepher and 9 Mile is pretty much like driving on the Moon. However south of Toepher to 8 Mile is all brand new concrete. They also repaved Hayes from 9 Mile to Stephens, and Stephens from Gratiot to Warren/Eastpointe city limits. 10 Mile is kinda wonky where the left lanes on both sides are asphalt while the right lanes on the outside are concrete. So like, not each lane has equivalent quality of road?

Meanwhile in St. Clair Shores, all their roads have pretty much just been repaved with the exception of 9 Mile between 94 and Harper. But even there it's not as bad as the hundreds of other roads everywhere else. But if I really had to chose, I'd say the worst roads in Metro Detroit that I've driven on are all in Southfield. I don't go that way often, but it seems like every time I do, NONE of the roads have been paved in probably the last 10 years.

At this point, I can just name roads based on their quality...I got so happy when they repaved Utica road. Now I don't actually attempt to avoid it!

[leroythelion]

People from Michigan should be forced to live somewhere else so they can understand that roads like this are not normal.