[FenderBass]

Michmoldman, you may scoff at what she has written, but there is some truth in her words. As a example, I used to work for a company here in Northern MI that employed the KKK imperial wizard. I poop you not!

[cosmicrowbar]

Originally Posted by Carol1829

I hope that you are not a liberal. If you are, you will be hated in Traverse City. I did phone polls there last summer. Some of the nastiest most hate filled people I ever talked to. If course, what can you expect from people who host Klu Klux Klan meeting there. At least, they did in the 90's--I'm not kidding!! I know that Michael Moore lives there, (actually he lives in Charlevoix, but that's right next door to TC) but for the life of me, I don't know why??!! They hate Indians there, too. In the 70's they used to shoot at them--again--not kidding!! As a matter of fact, if you aren't rich, they will hate you.

Maybe people who answer their phone to take uninvited calls just have a knee-jerk reaction to judgemental trolls....but I'm sure that isn't you, Carol1829. You sound SO much more reasonable.

It must be the KKK Indian-shooter types who support the Traverse City Film Festival, filling thousands of seats daily watching films from all over the world, who support, year round, the State Theater (recently noted as one of the 10 best movie theaters in the WORLD http://record-eagle.com/local/x2026368934/State-Theatre-named-as-one-of-the-top-10-movie-theaters-in-the-world because of it's rare and diverse offerings for ALL audiences (not to mention it's strong connection to right-wing nutcase Michael Moore) and probably the local Nazi skinheads who lobbied gayneighborhoods.com to mention TC as a "friendly" and welcoming place Best Gay Neighborhoods in every state in the USA .
Likely it's Tea Party kooks patronizing all the locavore style restaurants, brew pubs and foodie trucks blooming all over town as well, doncha think? And who but knuckle-dragging John Birchers would make the local NPR news station (WICA 91.5) one of the finest and strongly supported small market public radio news sources in the country. Everybody knows how much "hate-filled people" love their favorite mouthpiece, NPR...right?
In 2008, when the USA elected it's first black president and an employee of a local gun shop hoisted the American flag upside down (supposedly a distress signal) the guy was hailed a hero......oh..oops!, guess not... he was fired from his job and roundly condemned in all local print and broadcast media.
Are there right wing types in and around TC? Of course there are. Many voters are registered Republicans, including Michigan's former, and longest serving, thoughful and moderate Governor Bill Milliken, a Traverse City native son. That's a fact.
Ku Klux Klan meetings in the 90s... where and when, exactly, did these meetings happen? And "they shoot at Indians"? When and where did that happen? Widespread? A single incident? A phone-bank callers fantasy?
My guess is that the local Indian tribe, operators of two very successful casinos and one of Michigan's largest and most prestigious resorts near TC, might have another view than "they hate Indians". If that was the case, how would these businesses flourish and grow as they have? Would the Native American tribal members who own these businesses also "hate you" if you're "not rich"?

........"Not kidding"?....... Not a clue is more like it.

Full disclosure, I DO have a strong, deep-seated and possibly irrational hatred for je*ks who call me, uninvited, on the phone to ask questions, try to sell me junk or take polls. There's a federal law against that, actually... but do I still feel guilty for my ignorance and intolerance and promise to do better.

PS, Moore has a house on Torch Lake, which is not Charlevoix....... but you'd probably know that if you knew anything about Traverse City.

[Jswee]

Originally Posted by cosmicrowbar

Maybe people who answer their phone to take uninvited calls just have a knee-jerk reaction to judgemental trolls....but I'm sure that isn't you, Carol1829. You sound SO much more reasonable.

It must be the KKK Indian-shooter types who support the Traverse City Film Festival, filling thousands of seats daily watching films from all over the world, who support, year round, the State Theater (recently noted as one of the 10 best movie theaters in the WORLD http://record-eagle.com/local/x2026368934/State-Theatre-named-as-one-of-the-top-10-movie-theaters-in-the-world because of it's rare and diverse offerings for ALL audiences (not to mention it's strong connection to right-wing nutcase Michael Moore) and probably the local Nazi skinheads who lobbied gayneighborhoods.com to mention TC as a "friendly" and welcoming place Best Gay Neighborhoods in every state in the USA .
Likely it's Tea Party kooks patronizing all the locavore style restaurants, brew pubs and foodie trucks blooming all over town as well, doncha think? And who but knuckle-dragging John Birchers would make the local NPR news station (WICA 91.5) one of the finest and strongly supported small market public radio news sources in the country. Everybody knows how much "hate-filled people" love their favorite mouthpiece, NPR...right?
In 2008, when the USA elected it's first black president and an employee of a local gun shop hoisted the American flag upside down (supposedly a distress signal) the guy was hailed a hero......oh..oops!, guess not... he was fired from his job and roundly condemned in all local print and broadcast media.
Are there right wing types in and around TC? Of course there are. Many voters are registered Republicans, including Michigan's former, and longest serving, thoughful and moderate Governor Bill Milliken, a Traverse City native son. That's a fact.
Ku Klux Klan meetings in the 90s... where and when, exactly, did these meetings happen? And "they shoot at Indians"? When and where did that happen? Widespread? A single incident? A phone-bank callers fantasy?
My guess is that the local Indian tribe, operators of two very successful casinos and one of Michigan's largest and most prestigious resorts near TC, might have another view than "they hate Indians". If that was the case, how would these businesses flourish and grow as they have? Would the Native American tribal members who own these businesses also "hate you" if you're "not rich"?

........"Not kidding"?....... Not a clue is more like it.

Full disclosure, I DO have a strong, deep-seated and possibly irrational hatred for je*ks who call me, uninvited, on the phone to ask questions, try to sell me junk or take polls. There's a federal law against that, actually... but do I still feel guilty for my ignorance and intolerance and promise to do better.

PS, Moore has a house on Torch Lake, which is not Charlevoix....... but you'd probably know that if you knew anything about Traverse City.

+1, the portraying Traverse City as some kind of hate filled racist bastion is laughable.

Some clarification on the "shooting at Indians" claim, the incident happened a long, long time ago (like 40 years) and had nothing to do with racism, it had to do with disgruntled sport fisherman being upset with tribal commercial fisherman using gill nets who were exceeding the harvest limits allowed under the treaties in place at the time. Somebody took a pot shot at a commercial fish tug, as I remember, nobody was injured. Conflicts over tribal gill netting have occurred all over the great lakes and are hardly specific to or representative of attitudes towards Indians in Traverse City.

[cosmicrowbar]

If memory serves me (an increasingly shaky assumption) the only Leelanau Cty police officer ever shot in the line of duty was shot by a member of the local tribe. The wife was convicted of the actual shooting, though she and her husband both served time for attacking officer Phil Williams during a traffic stop, wresting away his gun and blasting him in the shoulder. I think either the husband, the wife or both were tribal members. Phil survived, by the way.

This, of course, has nothing whatsoever to do with racism, but by using Carol's method of "deduction" about these things she'd have to conclude Indians are cop-shooters... a supremely stupid assumption, right up there with concluding TC is racist because some likkered-up sport fisherman nitwit took a potshot at a fishtug a few decades ago.

[FenderBass]

Here is a interesting link. This data is based on geotagged hateful tweets. You will see that Traverse City ranks in the "most hate" category. Of course you don't see this because you don't experience it.
Hate Map

My 26 years in Traverse City tells me racism is alive and well here in the great "white" north.

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by FenderBass

Here is a interesting link. This data is based on geotagged hateful tweets. You will see that Traverse City ranks in the "most hate" category. Of course you don't see this because you don't experience it.
Hate Map

My 26 years in Traverse City tells me racism is alive and well here in the great "white" north.

Wow, the eastern UP is hate-free.

[michigan83]

Originally Posted by detwahDJ

Wow, the eastern UP is hate-free.

Hmmm... or is it people-free?

[cosmicrowbar]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Hmmm... or is it people-free?

Well, Arizona isn't people-free, but this handy little national map shows AZ, site of enormous racially based conflict in schools, law enforcement, border security, illegal immigration, etc., to be a veritable island of all-inclusive loving calm compared to the apparent racist storm in NW Michigan.
Thus, I think this tweetmap or whatever it is has some "issues" when it comes to being a barometer of bigotry, racism or whatever. As they say in Arizona, just before Sheriff Joe Arpaio slams the cell door: Eso no significa nada.

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by cosmicrowbar

Well, Arizona isn't people-free, but this handy little national map shows AZ, site of enormous racially based conflict in schools, law enforcement, border security, illegal immigration, etc., to be a veritable island of all-inclusive loving calm compared to the apparent racist storm in NW Michigan.
Thus, I think this tweetmap or whatever it is has some "issues" when it comes to being a barometer of bigotry, racism or whatever. As they say in Arizona, just before Sheriff Joe Arpaio slams the cell door: Eso no significa nada.

Well, that site is down now, but as I recall, it was based on the number of tweets, meaning areas of lower or wider distribution of population would have fewer tweets. That's why the eastern U.S. had the most activity.

[FenderBass]

Originally Posted by detwahDJ

Well, that site is down now, but as I recall, it was based on the number of tweets, meaning areas of lower or wider distribution of population would have fewer tweets. That's why the eastern U.S. had the most activity.

Fewer tweets with more hateful words per tweet than those of more densely populated areas? That doesn't bode well for the people of northern MI. Cosmicrowbar, I am originally from Maricopa county Arizona. I never experienced the kind of blatant racism and bigotry in Arizona that I have experienced here in northern MI.