[gnab gib]

Originally Posted by MidniteBreeze

Interesting...I didn't know that! So was the UP sort of a "no man's land" before it became part of Michigan?

As far as I know, it was just a U.S. territory -- probably still part of the Northwest Territory that MI and its neighboring states were carved out of.

Someone else asked about the legality of the UP becoming its own state. I'm not a lawyer, but the Confederate states used the 10th Amendment to justify secession from the United States back during the Civil War. The only problem is that the 10th Amendment seems to give states a right to rebel against the federal government, but not other state governments. There would also have to be a serious grievance, I would think, beyond simply "we want to be our own state." I hope someone with a legal background can weigh in ...

[darstar]

Originally Posted by YoAdrian

As far as I know, it was just a U.S. territory -- probably still part of the Northwest Territory that MI and its neighboring states were carved out of.

Someone else asked about the legality of the UP becoming its own state. I'm not a lawyer, but the Confederate states used the 10th Amendment to justify secession from the United States back during the Civil War. The only problem is that the 10th Amendment seems to give states a right to rebel against the federal government, but not other state governments. There would also have to be a serious grievance, I would think, beyond simply "we want to be our own state." I hope someone with a legal background can weigh in ...

It takes a referendum. was tried before , and came up short on votes. I think , maybe this time around , it might pass.....depends on the politics and the coming solutions for Michigans problems........look for more on this. I have some inside information, stay tuned.
I say , its high time , for a grass roots campaign for UP statehood , anyone interested ?

[darstar]

Originally Posted by i4tas

Wisconsin gave the UP to Michigan for nothing...

lets split the UP in half West = WI , East = MI
-Western UP is Packerland and just like the Wisconsin Northwoods
-HighScool Football teams play eachother accross the boarder
-the split would make a logical time zone line
-Western UP as Wisconsin would expand the WI snowmobile trails and help that part of the UP with more visitors
-drives to the capital would be equal for Yoopers: MI or WI
-How about the fact the UP is connected to WI

Really a wiscosnin annexation of the UP - at least Western UP (this way WI doesn't have to bother with the Canooks directly) is the best solution.

NO , keep the UP together , divided we fall , remember that...

[pixie2010]

If the U.P. becomes the 51st State It shall be the poorest of them all. I live in the U.P. and If we become our own state then where are we gunna get the money to fix roads and do other things? If there's another Hurricane how are we supposed to get the money to send own to where ever it is? It'd be cool of we did become our own state But I'm just vioceing a few concerns.

[michiganmoon]

The UP breaking off of Michigan to make the 51st state would legally need the approval of Michigan's congress in lansing and governor, and then approval of the states in the national senate. Not very likely to get through the first or second step.

We should be working together to be bringing up all of Michigan during these hard times, not talking of how to tear apart the state.

[tmojbtcbf]

nothing much in the U.P. but snow and trees, we could give it to canada.
Most of the people from there feel more akin to wisconsin then michigan anyways.

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by tmojbtcbf

nothing much in the U.P. but snow and trees, we could give it to canada.
Most of the people from there feel more akin to wisconsin then michigan anyways.

GO PACKERS!

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by YoAdrian

As far as I know, it was just a U.S. territory -- probably still part of the Northwest Territory that MI and its neighboring states were carved out of.

Someone else asked about the legality of the UP becoming its own state. I'm not a lawyer, but the Confederate states used the 10th Amendment to justify secession from the United States back during the Civil War. The only problem is that the 10th Amendment seems to give states a right to rebel against the federal government, but not other state governments. There would also have to be a serious grievance, I would think, beyond simply "we want to be our own state." I hope someone with a legal background can weigh in ...

The Eastern Third of the UP was always within the Original territory of Michigan. The Western two thirds of the UP had not yet been carved out of the original Northwest territory. The Northwest Territory, by law was to be split into 5 states, which is why it would eventually be carved into Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, (and a part of Minnesota). The final 2/3rds of the UP was given to Michigan in exchange for letting Ohio steal, errr, get the Toledo Strip. :-)

It doesn't matter that the CSA justified secession through the 10th Amendment, as the US Supreme Court ruled that secession is unconstitutional. Also that the 10th amendment doesn't apply to everything, much the same way that there are limits to freedom of speech. The federal government has inherent powers as it exists as a sovereign nation amidst the world community. If you read the 10th amendment literally then you could aslo transpose that the federal government can not enforce its own laws, create laws on immigration, among other things...even though the founding fathers clearly intended the federal government to have those powers.

Another interesting tid bit, is that the Northwest Ordinance that was passed twice, and supported heavily by notables like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and etc... Said that any state created from the Northwest Territory (Michigan) must forever be within the Union. Much of Michigan's land was once claimed by other states like Massachusetts and Connecticut...since they ceded the land so states like Michigan could form, they didn't want Michigan to turn around and then leave the US. It is also interesting to note that according to the Northwest Ordinance, Michigan has every right of any other state - and can't leave the Union - therefore isn't Jefferson and Washington saying other states can't leave the Union either? Some think so - among other of their writings and laws.

Anyways: For Michigan to legally break off from the US, it needs the national congress' consent.

For the UP to break off legally from Michigan, it needs that and the state congress' consent.

[gnab gib]

Originally Posted by tmojbtcbf

nothing much in the U.P. but snow and trees, we could give it to canada.
Most of the people from there feel more akin to wisconsin then michigan anyways.

What is all this stuff I'm reading lately about giving stuff to Canada that we don't want? That's kind of an insult to Canada (as if they should take our unwanted cast-offs) and the U.P. (as if there's no use for it).

The U.P. has lots of snow and trees, yeah ... which is a great reason not just to keep it, but to celebrate it. It's beautiful up there!!

[jeeg]

Originally Posted by YoAdrian

The U.P. has lots of snow and trees, yeah ... which is a great reason not just to keep it, but to celebrate it. It's beautiful up there!!

Hear, Hear!! Someone buy this person a beer!!