[Torrid]

This has got to be the most ridiculous suggestion I've heard here so far LMAO! After living in Ohio for 18 yrs., and being to Toledo MANY MANY times, yeap Michigan won.....FOR SURE!!!!!! Toledo is nearly as disgusting, downtown, as Detroit is. Abandoned buildings and bums.....Don't forget to visit the Cherry St. hookers if ya ever go LOL. Although, I DO miss the body oil shop in the Southwyk Mall LOL.

[Yusta B. A. Yooper]

The 51st. state movement was popular in the 70's. My father was one of the leaders. Half joking & half serious. Yoopers were fed up then (as now) with the disporportionate tax distribution going to the trolls. Here are the 10 ponts of the joking part of the plan:

1. Throw a big party, dress up like Indians, with plenty of war paint
2. Sneak into Ft. Mackinac and steal a cannon.
3. Paint a line at the mid point of Da-bridge
4. Position the cannon on Da-Yooper side of Da-bridge, pointing it towards Da-trolls.
5. Susceed from the US.
6. Declare war on the US.
7. Fire one shot at Da-Trolls below Da-Bridge.
8. Surrender immediately.
9. Become the biggest welfare state in the union.
10. Live ever after, pretty much the same as before.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Yusta B. A. Yooper

The 51st. state movement was popular in the 70's. My father was one of the leaders. Half joking & half serious. Yoopers were fed up then (as now) with the disporportionate tax distribution going to the trolls. Here are the 10 ponts of the joking part of the plan:

1. Throw a big party, dress up like Indians, with plenty of war paint
2. Sneak into Ft. Mackinac and steal a cannon.
3. Paint a line at the mid point of Da-bridge
4. Position the cannon on Da-Yooper side of Da-bridge, pointing it towards Da-trolls.
5. Susceed from the US.
6. Declare war on the US.
7. Fire one shot at Da-Trolls below Da-Bridge.
8. Surrender immediately.
9. Become the biggest welfare state in the union.
10. Live ever after, pretty much the same as before.

Oh that brought back some memories. I remember something very similar to that when I was in the Soo. Could be exactly the same, but time has faded the memory a bit.

[darstar]

I think bringing back the 51st state idea should be promoted once again. Remember , Key West still has the Conch Flag, and , they are proud of it......As to a serious attempt to break away from lower Michigan, well , that would be up to a majority of Yoopers to decide.The first step is a survey, to see if enough interest is there, politics will not trump the will of the people, if they are willing.........I believe the whole of the Country is wanting change, in a serious way. 2008 may bring some interesting ideas, decisions , demands , and effects , stay tuned , we may be in for a bumpy ride !

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by darstar

I think bringing back the 51st state idea should be promoted once again. Remember , Key West still has the Conch Flag, and , they are proud of it......As to a serious attempt to break away from lower Michigan, well , that would be up to a majority of Yoopers to decide.The first step is a survey, to see if enough interest is there, politics will not trump the will of the people, if they are willing.........I believe the whole of the Country is wanting change, in a serious way. 2008 may bring some interesting ideas, decisions , demands , and effects , stay tuned , we may be in for a bumpy ride !

Legally it is up to the Michigan Legislature, Governor, and US Legislature to all agree on it.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

I don't see it happening. Seems like it would be too complicated, and what would be the point?

Besides, we'd have to add another star to the flag, maybe 2 if some Illinoisans had their way.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

Legally it is up to the Michigan Legislature, Governor, and US Legislature to all agree on it.

and , who does the legislature represent? , ........the people, who elected them.........
Puerto Rico decided to remain a territory,...the peoples choice........States rights issues will play a big part in the upcoming elections, mainly due to the economy, and taxes.

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by darstar

and , who does the legislature represent? , ........the people, who elected them.........
Puerto Rico decided to remain a territory,...the peoples choice........States rights issues will play a big part in the upcoming elections, mainly due to the economy, and taxes.

You are factually wrong about 2 things here.

1) darstar said "As to a serious attempt to break away from lower Michigan, well , that would be up to a majority of Yoopers to decide."

No. Factually you are wrong. It is not for "a majority of Yoopers to decide". Factually and legally you are incorrect.

Hypothetically every single Yooper could want to stay a Michigander, but if the majority of the Michigan legislature wanted to remove the U.P. and the national legislature agreed, then well, the U.P. would be out of Michigan. Likewise, every single Yooper could want to form their own 51st state, but if either of the Michigan or National Legislatures said no, then the Upper Peninsula couldn't legally leave Michigan.

2) You are also factually wrong to suggest that this is a state's right issue.

> Your example about Puerto Rico has no basis for what we are talking about. Puerto Rico is a "territory" (not a state - states have different legal standings than territories). Puerto Rico voted not to "pursue" statehood. That is absolutely in no way similar to part of a current state breaking into two separate states.

> You are also factually wrong to suggest that Michigan breaking into 2 states is a state's right issue. State's Rights deal specifically to powers that the constitution does not grant the federal government. The US constitution clearly specifically says that it is as much of a national congress right to approve a state breaking into 2 states as it is a right of that state's legislature.

> To back up my claim, Article 4, Section 3 of the US Constitution says
"New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress." (Congress means the one in DC)

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by darstar

........States rights issues will play a big part in the upcoming elections, mainly due to the economy, and taxes.

State's Rights Issues, as in where the Constitution isn't perfectly clear where the Federal governments role and State governments roles start and stop. Not on something cut and dry that the constitution is very clear on such as the national congress and state congress both have to approve of a break up of a state into 2 spearate states.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

State's Rights Issues, as in where the Constitution isn't perfectly clear where the Federal governments role and State governments roles start and stop. Not on something cut and dry that the constitution is very clear on such as the national congress and state congress both have to approve of a break up of a state into 2 spearate states.

Correct, I did not say they did not..... federal always trumps states, and when we thro in Interstate Commerce, well , that sends all to the federal. It is " These United States" that we belong to, in my mind , but , there is history, and constitutional issues that have pointed otherwise.
I will get back to you on your points , soon. I am involved in a project now , and , don't have the time today. stay tuned.....