[arpschneider]

I grew up in East Grand Rapids; having been a transplant due to my father's job transfer back in 1960. Essentially, I started First Grade in a school building that no longer exists (torn down!) having completed Kindergarten in Deerfield, IL. Even though I was almost a "lifer", the Dutch culture is simply IMPOSSIBLE to break into, especially if you have a heavily non-Dutch ethnic name like Schneider!! It was so bad that I even had a girl turn me down for a date because she told me I wasn't born in the same HOSPITAL as she was! Talk about STUCK-UP!!

My best friend in HS committed suicide during my senior year because he couldn't take it any longer, and I honestly though there had to be something wrong with ME until I went away to college in eastern Michigan. There I met and instantly became friends with many, many people and it was the first time in my entire life that I felt normal.

My brother had it even harder, because he was 13 years older than myself and was forced to change during his senior year of high school and never did fit in, either. By the time I was old enough to know anything, he "escaped" by joining the Navy during the Vietnam era for 8 years!!

They have a saying: "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much, and they really MEAN it! At least that was MY experience and this was well over 35 years ago and it has scarred me for life.

By stark contrast, I find living in small town central IL to be MUCH more friendly and neighborly than the stuck-up snobs that populate West Michigan. The only Dutch people I've ever become friends with are fellow "escapees" from Muskegon and Grand Rapids, respectively, that are members of my church's choir (in fact, the wife is the Choir director!!) Of course, they know nothing of this kind of thing because they were Dutch and "fit right in".

I'm certain I'm a mal-adjusted mis-fit, but just the same, if you're used to people meeting you half-way, don't expect that from folks in West Michigan as a rule. Usually, if they are interested in you, it's because you must have something that they want!! At least, that has been my experience.

Faithfully,

G.A>

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by arpschneider

I grew up in East Grand Rapids; having been a transplant due to my father's job transfer back in 1960. Essentially, I started First Grade in a school building that no longer exists (torn down!) having completed Kindergarten in Deerfield, IL. Even though I was almost a "lifer", the Dutch culture is simply IMPOSSIBLE to break into, especially if you have a heavily non-Dutch ethnic name like Schneider!! ..............

BS. Plain and simple.

Name like Gordon and I fit in great, from Kindergarten and beyond in West Michigan.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Bydand

BS. Plain and simple.

Name like Gordon and I fit in great, from Kindergarten and beyond in West Michigan.

Irish Catholic here doing just fine too, thanks. 35 years is a long time (1973). Vietnam War had just ended a few years earlier.

[deslok]

Never have I felt more out of place then the times I went to Holland Michigan, or parts of GR. The poster about the dutch ain't much parts was right. Why is that so hard for some folks to believe? It isn't BS plain and simple. I have asked a lot of folks from all over their thoughts on Holland and for everyone that says " love the tulips" there is another that says, "never would go back" or, " it felt like everyone was staring me down".

[arpschneider]

Originally Posted by Bydand

BS. Plain and simple.

Name like Gordon and I fit in great, from Kindergarten and beyond in West Michigan.

If it work(s)(ed) for you, then great. However, in my case, I'm reminded of "the cold Dutch stare" every time I go back and visit my brother in Muskegon. Here in Central IL, if I pass someone going into or out of a store and they'll usually smile and say "HI" to you.

Imagine that: COMPLETE STRANGERS!!

West Michigan? FORGET it! If you so much as even dare LOOK at anyone; much less say anything, they'll either purposely look the other way, or else if they do look, then they look at you like they're trying to figure-out just what rock you crawled out from under, or you have a big zit in the middle of your forehead or something equally appealing.

Most people that I've talked to while working up at my brother's place usually turn-out to be transplants from somewhere else and not native Dutch.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by arpschneider

If it work(s)(ed) for you, then great. However, in my case, I'm reminded of "the cold Dutch stare" every time I go back and visit my brother in Muskegon. Here in Central IL, if I pass someone going into or out of a store and they'll usually smile and say "HI" to you.

Imagine that: COMPLETE STRANGERS!!

West Michigan? FORGET it! If you so much as even dare LOOK at anyone; much less say anything, they'll either purposely look the other way, or else if they do look, then they look at you like they're trying to figure-out just what rock you crawled out from under, or you have a big zit in the middle of your forehead or something equally appealing.

Most people that I've talked to while working up at my brother's place usually turn-out to be transplants from somewhere else and not native Dutch.

So even the non-natives are staring you down and looking at you funny? Perhaps you have it in your head that people are strange here, and they are just returning your cold unfriendly stares.

I meet a lot of people who are new to this area, and the great majority of them tell me they experience the complete opposite of what you and deslok are describing. And I've had the same experiences: people hold the door for each other, most drivers are curteous (not all, but most), people say hi, etc..

[Brrrman4755]

Try Hudsonville, it's friendly growing and minutes from everywhere. Your best bet for kayaking is along the lake where there are many tributaries in from lake Michigan. The scenery is to die for up towards Spring Lake and all points north and south of Holland. The housing in Holland is very attainable too. Many duplexes if you only want to rent and many homes and condos being built if you want to buy. Job wise GR is turning into a Medical and retail town. Growth is slow and so long as you are not associated with the auto industry employment should be no problem.

[Bydand]

My wife is originally from the Boston area and I just asked her what her impressions were/are of the West Michigan area. Seeing how she worked in Manistee and Muskegon both, I thought it might be relevant to get her take as a total outsider. Warm friendly people, great places to work, and overall a very good positive response from everybody she has met; was her take on West Michigan. She even went as far as to say it was the first time she really, truly felt "at home" in any location, including the small town she grew up in.

[arpschneider]

Originally Posted by Bydand

My wife is originally from the Boston area and I just asked her what her impressions were/are of the West Michigan area. Seeing how she worked in Manistee and Muskegon both, I thought it might be relevant to get her take as a total outsider. Warm friendly people, great places to work, and overall a very good positive response from everybody she has met; was her take on West Michigan. She even went as far as to say it was the first time she really, truly felt "at home" in any location, including the small town she grew up in.

It's prolly comparative. I've also been to Boston and being "the big city", I wouldn't expect people to be overtly friendly there, and so I'm sure compared to there, Michigan DOES seem friendlier. But compared to central IL, it's the other way around.

Interestingly, some of the NICEST people I've ever gotten to know were FROM Grand Rapids and Muskegon, respectively (husband and wife) but they ESCAPED west Michigan to Central IL. THEY say that they'd move back in a second, but then again, since they were born there, and are characteristically blond hair and blue eyes, they certainly fit right in.

I'm sure that part of it is that my brother and I are mal-adjusted misfits, but just the same, we find it much easier to socialize with others down this way than up there. It's an interesting comparative experience for me to go to his church up there and for him to come to ours, which is one place were you would naturally EXPECT some friendliness. He's always taken off-guard whenever people try to positively interact with him because he's so used to how it is up in his church (same religion, BTW, but NOT CRC or other Calvinist derivitives!) where people are cold and ignore him.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by arpschneider

It's prolly comparative. I've also been to Boston and being "the big city", I wouldn't expect people to be overtly friendly there, and so I'm sure compared to there, Michigan DOES seem friendlier. But compared to central IL, it's the other way around.

She is from the Boston area, NOT Boston itself. The town she grew up in is about the size of Shelby and is a very friendly little place, even by midwest standards.