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Old 01-26-2014, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Michigan
1,217 posts, read 3,267,285 times
Reputation: 562

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Alaska View Post
Those people who drive at 20mph holding up huge strings of traffic are IMO just as deadly. People get frustrated and tetchy and take risks and accidents happen.
Yes I know you always go to town on a Wednesday for your groceries and you have been doing it for 40 years in the same damn car but please please could you at least come close to a reasonable speed ?
Your post is like blaming the snow for the accidents. It's not the slow person driving, it's the impatient idiot that gets angry, takes the risk, passes them and ends up causing an accident or in the ditch. That's who I'd blame.
Define reasonable speed? Reasonable speed to you may not be to another. I drove white knuckled and slow for years after my accident.
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Loving life in Gaylord!
4,120 posts, read 8,874,566 times
Reputation: 3915
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGatti View Post
But I don't want it.
I know...lol
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:09 PM
 
62 posts, read 132,923 times
Reputation: 115
I live 9 miles from work. The past month, it has taken me over 1 hour to get there. Traffic, lack of plowing or no salt is the reason. I see so many accidents yet people continue to speed. My husband and I saw so many cars in ditches on the way home from Fenton today. I am with you JGatti-I do not get people either!
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:59 AM
 
Location: NW Michigan
265 posts, read 799,300 times
Reputation: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGatti View Post
It's not the slow person driving, it's the impatient idiot that gets angry, takes the risk, passes them and ends up causing an accident or in the ditch. That's who I'd blame.
There are too many slow-driving idiots in Northern Michigan. So many people just freak out because of their lack of driving skills in winter and they unnecessarily slow down traffic flow. If you have to drive too slow for the conditions, at least pull over occasionally and let other traffic go by. So yes, I will pass you even though I am not an impatient idiot. Just pull over or stay off the roads if you you don't know how to drive in winter.

Heavy SUVs and pickup trucks are not good winter vehicles and it doesn't matter if you AWD or not. Smalller, lighter cars with good tires, stability control and FWD are so much easier to control in winter on snowy roads.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Harbor Springs, Michigan
2,294 posts, read 3,413,792 times
Reputation: 4654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
There are times where the reasonable and prudent speed IS 20 MPH. Been there done that several times, always have fools who think 4X4 or AWD will somehow make their vehicle handle icy roads like they are dry. From your post I take it you would be one I would smile and wave at while they are trying to figure out why they are in the ditch and that damn hazardous driver they blew by a couple miles ago is passing by... smiling, waving and laughing his ass off. And yes I drive AWD and 4X4, have for decades; great for getting going, doesn't do squat for turning or stopping.
I'll answer Bydand first ... yes I drive a 4wd vehicle and sorry to disappoint you but NO in 30+ years of driving I have never had an accident nor gone off the road in icy/snowy conditions. 20mph on a newly plowed 50mph road with no snow actually coming down is too slow, the driver I came across recently was driving a very old sedan with no headlights on and was holding up at least 20 cars. As for being the one who smiles and waves and laughs .. thats not me I tend to stop and offer help, we have a lot of rural roads around here and its dangerous to leave someone stranded in the snow.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGatti View Post
Your post is like blaming the snow for the accidents. It's not the slow person driving, it's the impatient idiot that gets angry, takes the risk, passes them and ends up causing an accident or in the ditch. That's who I'd blame.
Define reasonable speed? Reasonable speed to you may not be to another. I drove white knuckled and slow for years after my accident.
As previously stated I have been driving for over 30 years and no snow doesn't cause accidents idiots do, noticeably up here in N Michigan and also in Alaska the ones in the ditch are those who are complacent about having driven on snow their whole life and so manage to end up in the ditch.
Once again, if you cant do better than 20mph on a clear road with good visibility then you shouldn't be out driving.

Also to add, I have only been in N Michigan since 2001, and spent 5 years in Alaska from 2008-2013. I didn't grow up driving on snowy/icy roads I listened and learned, It may help that I am an advanced driver having completed a police drivers course back in the UK (it gave me great discounts on my insurance over there shame US insurers cant do the same) even my DH comments that I notice stuff that he doesn't. Today I will be out and about, several days of below zero temps and winds polishing the roads have left them slick but you can bet I wont be doing 20mph all the way to town.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Michigan
1,217 posts, read 3,267,285 times
Reputation: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Alaska View Post
I'll answer Bydand first ... yes I drive a 4wd vehicle and sorry to disappoint you but NO in 30+ years of driving I have never had an accident nor gone off the road in icy/snowy conditions. 20mph on a newly plowed 50mph road with no snow actually coming down is too slow, the driver I came across recently was driving a very old sedan with no headlights on and was holding up at least 20 cars. As for being the one who smiles and waves and laughs .. thats not me I tend to stop and offer help, we have a lot of rural roads around here and its dangerous to leave someone stranded in the snow.
.


As previously stated I have been driving for over 30 years and no snow doesn't cause accidents idiots do, noticeably up here in N Michigan and also in Alaska the ones in the ditch are those who are complacent about having driven on snow their whole life and so manage to end up in the ditch.
Once again, if you cant do better than 20mph on a clear road with good visibility then you shouldn't be out driving.

Also to add, I have only been in N Michigan since 2001, and spent 5 years in Alaska from 2008-2013. I didn't grow up driving on snowy/icy roads I listened and learned, It may help that I am an advanced driver having completed a police drivers course back in the UK (it gave me great discounts on my insurance over there shame US insurers cant do the same) even my DH comments that I notice stuff that he doesn't. Today I will be out and about, several days of below zero temps and winds polishing the roads have left them slick but you can bet I wont be doing 20mph all the way to town.

With your superior driving ability a clear road to you may not be all that clear to the person doing 20mph. Granted 20 is slow for even the worst conditions, but. BUT, if that is the speed the person feels comfortable driving that person is entitled to drive to work or pick their kids up or be on the road for whatever reason. How many people have bosses that will not be angry if people followed your advice and just stayed OFF the roads?
Like you I have never been behind the wheel in an accident. I was a passenger when I was in one. But when others are doing 60 and I'm content doing 40 -45 sometimes slower depending on how bad it is. I can tell you this. I have witnessed many pile ups, people swerving to avoid the pile up and ending up in the ditch because they cannot stop or slow down. Meanwhile after the fact I just crawl on past with a grin on my face mumbling " idiots" as I pass. Maybe you have just been lucky. But by the sounds of it you have a better chance to be one of those people I roll past at some point in the future.
I'd bet the same people that drive too fast in bad conditions are the exact same ones who speed and zip in and out of traffic like they are in the Indy 500 only to have me pull up to them at the next light. I love those people. I wonder what kind of gas mileage they get, and if they realize the smart drivers always catch them without driving like an idiot.
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:02 PM
 
2,025 posts, read 4,152,143 times
Reputation: 2539
Look people, if you lack the ability and confidence to drive at a reasonable speed in icy or snowy conditions, then maybe you don't belong on the road. Every day it's been 20 mph both ways, one driver holding up a long string of traffic. Some of you prattle on about how selfish it is to go around people or pressure the slowboaters, but it's even more selfish to hold up a mile of traffic because you can't or won't maintain a reasonable speed.

I've been driving for 30+ years, most of those in Alaska where I would drive 100+ miles a day between commuting and my job which tokk me from office to office all day. In those years I have been in the ditch once, and that was from misjudging the edge of the road while turning off the main road. I took the time and spent the money to properly equip my small AWD wagon with good tires and wipers. I drive in a courteous manner with consideration for those who share the road and I would appreciate the same, so, if you can't drive at a reasonable speed, if you are "white knuckling", maybe you should pull over and let your fellow motorists pass by. Maybe you'll get that chance to laugh at them but I doubt it. Even if they did go off the road, they'll be out by the time you get there.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:20 AM
 
1,069 posts, read 2,070,036 times
Reputation: 974
It always amazes me when I'm driving in terrible weather/road conditions, the people who will ride right on my bumper. I had a semi do that one day, and I went sliding (on purpose) into a parking lot to get away from him, and he didn't even slow down....I don't think he even noticed me! All I can think when people tail like this, is if I have to stop suddenly...they are going to plow right into me. Even the ones who zoom around me don't get where they are going any faster, except maybe by a few seconds. Not worth it.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:28 AM
 
1,317 posts, read 1,925,163 times
Reputation: 1925
It works both ways. There is a reasonable speed there are those going too high and too low.

I've seen in Northern Michigan and Detroit area.

On one hand you get the crazy big-SUV driving people flying by at 60+ mph.

On the other hand you get the beater car with one headlight, frost on the inside of the windows, cleared a small patch on their windshield, doing 10 mph with a line-up of 20 cars behind them.

In reality, the reasonable speed is probably somewhere around 35 mph and plenty of spacing.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:34 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,112,707 times
Reputation: 7812
I have my 4x4 diesel and I am in the center lane doing 40 mph (or the flow of traffic) as I watch these SUV suburbanites fly by doing 60-70 mph in the left lane and just wait to see how many end up against the center divider with their front ends ripped off.
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