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Old 03-27-2014, 11:31 AM
 
447 posts, read 492,998 times
Reputation: 478

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhills View Post
Actually, I think it represents bullying and bombardment. I just took a live poll online, and I was so shocked at the results I took a screen shot. 82% of the USA does not support gay marriage.....still. It seems the media wishes us to believe otherwise.

The most shocking thing about the poll, is you could float your cursor over the states to see individual %'s. Cali was against 82% (no shock there, cause they voted it down twice). The real shock? The most amount of support came from a quieter state like Arkansas or something... can't recall now. Didn't screen shot that one.
Online polls are not scientific and are usually heavily skewed in one redirection......ie Fox news and MSNBC polls will only tell you nothing except the political leaning of their audiences.

I find 82% agreeing in either direction as being way high. You would hard pressed to find 82% of Americans agreeing to any political view.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:34 AM
 
447 posts, read 492,998 times
Reputation: 478
Here is a scientific poll that shows the change in American's attitude toward Same Sex Marriage from 1996-2013.
Gay Marriage | Pew Research Center
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,793,803 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNIEANDDONNA417 View Post
Civil rights are the BASIC rights that all citizens of our society are supposed to have...like the right to work, right to vote...etc...I just don't classify gay marriage as a civil right
The courts have ruled that it falls under the Equal Protection Clause (civil right). You can actually see the Michigan judge's ruling here. It's an interesting read.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/blob/v...ruling-pdf.pdf
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:48 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 18,111,525 times
Reputation: 10355
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
The courts have ruled that it falls under the Equal Protection Clause (civil right). You can actually see the Michigan judge's ruling here. It's an interesting read.

www.clickondetroit.com/blob/view/-/25094974/data/1/-/arjvddz/-/DeBoer-ruling-pdf.pdf
Another, should DONNIEANDDONNA care to read further, and on a notable conservative website to boot:
Why Gay Rights Are Civil Rights

But this is all just window dressing. WHY should gay people even have to defend their right and desire to be legally married, and have the same rights (and burdens!) that straight couples have? What harm does it do to anyone else? It's actually a compelling benefit to states and countries that allow it. Just like Loving v Virginia - can you imagine what America would look like if that had been overturned?

The conversation breaks down at this point, because religious conservatives have no coherent answer beyond "it's icky" and "somewhere in the Bible it says it's wrong." Jesus was never recorded as making a single statement about LGTB folks or gay marriage - in fact much of what he said could be considered in support of it. Love they neighbor, do not cast the first stone, etc.

And anyhow, constitutionally, the US is not a nation founded on religious law. Precisely the opposite, in fact. It's the first amendment.

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:15 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 9,519,310 times
Reputation: 10079
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
"Pro gay agenda."

How about the $multi-billion dollar wedding industry, bombarding girls with the notion of the big expensive fancy church wedding and the $10,000 gown from the time they're 12 years old. No agenda there? Especially when half of them end in failure and the couple has $20,000 (nowadays) in credit card debt from the reception.

Yes, that heterosexual construct of weddings and marriage must be preserved at all costs. Like, who would even throw the bouquet??? Pro gay agenda be damned.
I think that whole Bridezilla thing is stupid!!!! i have to roll my eyes when i hear girls get that attitude.

Thats why I'm not a lesbian. I cant stand those Bridezillas!!!!

As for gay marriage, I have more conservative views, so i suppose my opinion is not welcome. however, the straight Bridezillas turn me off more than me seeing two cute gay guys getting married.

I know i sound like i have a double standard and i dont make sense, so dont even try to figure me out but thats all i have to contribute to this

My daughter worked in wedding dress sales and she would give me horror stories of these women being so aggravating and ruining expensive dresses and such, and other things which are not good for hearing at the dinner table. People going for a fitting really need to take a shower before they go into a store in the middle of August.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:16 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,110,189 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNIEANDDONNA417 View Post
Civil rights are the BASIC rights that all citizens of our society are supposed to have...like the right to work, right to vote...etc...I just don't classify gay marriage as a civil right
Maybe interracial marriage falls into the same category? After all, they used religion as a basis to stop interracial marriage for years...
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,793,803 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO View Post
I think that whole Bridezilla thing is stupid!!!! i have to roll my eyes when i hear girls get that attitude.

Thats why I'm not a lesbian. I cant stand those Bridezillas!!!!

As for gay marriage, I have more conservative views, so i suppose my opinion is not welcome. however, the straight Bridezillas turn me off more than me seeing two cute gay guys getting married.

I know i sound like i have a double standard and i dont make sense, so dont even try to figure me out but thats all i have to contribute to this

My daughter worked in wedding dress sales and she would give me horror stories of these women being so aggravating and ruining expensive dresses and such, and other things which are not good for hearing at the dinner table. People going for a fitting really need to take a shower before they go into a store in the middle of August.
Ewww, that's gross.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,753,619 times
Reputation: 40161
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
You can't seriously compare a poll to a statewide vote participated in by millions. Do you know how many people were polled, or if their political and social views were identified before they were polled? I'm guessing not.

Polls can be, and often are, intentionally skewed to get the end result that the pollster is looking for. I doubt if the results would be much different if this issue was put to a statewide vote again. People are pretty rooted in their beliefs, regardless of which side they're on. If someone is adamantly opposed to gay marriage, they're not going to change their opinion because someone else tells them they should, and vice versa.
Then you haven't paid any attention to those states where the issue was polled at the ballot box multiple times.

California:
In 2000, Proposition 22 proposed a statutory ban on same-sex marriage in California - it passed with 61.4% of the vote.
In 2008, Proposition 8 proposed reversing a California Supreme Court decision with a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage - it passed with 52.2% of the vote.
That's an erosion of opposition to same-sex marriage of 9.2% over eight years, or 1.2%/year.
California Proposition 22 (2000) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
California Proposition 8 (2008) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maine:
In 2009, Question 1 proposed rejecting a law passed by the state government to allow same-sex marriage - it passed with 52.9% of the vote.
In 2012, Question 1 proposed enacting a law allowing same-sex marriage - it passed with 52.6% of the vote.
That's an erosion of opposition to same-sex marriage of 5.5% in three years, or 1.8%/year.
Maine Question 1, 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Maine Question 1, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See? The vote in Michigan to ban same-sex marriage was 10 years ago. Can you do the math?

Now, about the fact that you think Michigan would vote the same way again because 'people don't change their minds'. Well, aside from the fact that you're wrong, there's the fact that in that time, at least 10% of the Michigan electorate has died, and the disproportionate bulk of those deaths will be in the upper age brackets - which oppose same-sex marriage. They've been replaced by voters turning 18, and the under-30 demographic overwhelmingly supports same-sex marriage. It's not rocket science to understand how the gradual turnover of the electorate affects support for this issue.

An illustration of how you're wrong in your notions that minds don't change - electorate attrition/replacement does not account for the totality of the change in attitudes:
A Shifting Landscape: A Decade of Change in American Attitudes about Same-Sex Marriage and LGBT Issues

Finally, to your idea that polls cannot measure results at the ballot box; in fact, the vast majority of the time they do. We see this play out ever two years. In 2012, how many states were won by the Presidential candidate who trailed in the aggregated polls for that state? Not a single one - in all 50 states won by either President Obama or Governor Romney, the aggregated polls predicted the winner correctly. In 2012, how many House and Senate races were won by a candidate who trailed in the aggregated polls? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure only 1 of the 33 seats in the Senate went that way (North Dakota, where the Democrat won despite polls pointing to a narrow Republican victory). Whatever the numbers in the House, as usual the polls (when a particular race was polled - many aren't) were right well over 90% of the time.

"The polls are skewed!", you say? Now where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah! Before the 2012 election when legions of people who didn't want to believe the Presidential polls insisted they were skewed.'
Blog: Skewed polls indicate Obama's in trouble - not Romney
Presidential Polls 2012: Skewed Polling and Biased Media Coverage Give Obama False Advantage Over Romney - John Giokaris - Page fullSkewed Polls
Actually Show That Romney Is Winning | Neon Tommy


You'd think people would have learned their lessons. But no...
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,446 posts, read 10,736,565 times
Reputation: 15916
How very sad what is going on in Michigan. First a court is trying to usurp the rights of a states right to make its own laws as the constitution prescribes. The people voted on the issue and put the law in place, if its to be changed then it should be the state that does it, not some federal judge. That is unacceptable. It is sad however that it does appear that the people there do approve of gay marriage (according to polls), something that IMO is completely against the bible, and contrary to centuries of tradition. It depresses me to see the state I grew up in do such a thing, and makes me feel even more distant from it, not just in miles but in values as well. I think I may be where I belong, in red state America. For those who are still living up there fighting the good fight, I feel for you but it may be a losing battle against the massive tide of immorality and secularism. Most of the Midwest has already fallen, Michigan held out longer than most in that region. Just 30 years ago no where in America would this even be considered, I fear for the future of our nation in general.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:03 PM
 
9,189 posts, read 16,571,454 times
Reputation: 11291
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
How very sad what is going on in Michigan. First a court is trying to usurp the rights of a states right to make its own laws as the constitution prescribes. The people voted on the issue and put the law in place, if its to be changed then it should be the state that does it, not some federal judge. That is unacceptable. It is sad however that it does appear that the people there do approve of gay marriage (according to polls), something that IMO is completely against the bible, and contrary to centuries of tradition. It depresses me to see the state I grew up in do such a thing, and makes me feel even more distant from it, not just in miles but in values as well. I think I may be where I belong, in red state America. For those who are still living up there fighting the good fight, I feel for you but it may be a losing battle against the massive tide of immorality and secularism. Most of the Midwest has already fallen, Michigan held out longer than most in that region. Just 30 years ago no where in America would this even be considered, I fear for the future of our nation in general.
You sound like fun. You do realize that this is only related to civil marriage and has absolutely nothing to do with religion, right? Why does legalized civil same-sex marriage scare you?
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