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Old 03-30-2014, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,437 posts, read 10,717,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
Sorry but the "Civil Rights" of Americans "Gay" or "Straight" black or white should never be "voted" upon!

Homosexuality is a behavior NOT an ethnic group. Behavior is not protected by civil rights laws, and it should not be. Society decides through the laws it passes and social norms it deems acceptable which behaviors it should and should not tolerate. Many areas of the nation still see homosexuality as contrary to their value systems so it is up to states and local governments to determine what rights to give homosexuals, if any. Courts have no business in this as it is NOT civil rights we are talking about, it is a controversial behavior.
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:58 PM
 
9,189 posts, read 16,551,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Homosexuality is a behavior NOT an ethnic group. Behavior is not protected by civil rights laws, and it should not be. Society decides through the laws it passes and social norms it deems acceptable which behaviors it should and should not tolerate. Many areas of the nation still see homosexuality as contrary to their value systems so it is up to states and local governments to determine what rights to give homosexuals, if any. Courts have no business in this as it is NOT civil rights we are talking about, it is a controversial behavior.
At least we know the source of your bigotry; lack of knowledge. Sexual orientation is far more than behavior alone. Civil rights deals with innate characteristics. Homosexuality being innate will be protected under civil rights laws. It doesn't take a psychic to see that.

Regardless of your "values", or lack thereof IMO, why do you care what other people do to the extent that you wish for them to be treated as inferiors under the law? I really hope you answer that.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,437 posts, read 10,717,276 times
Reputation: 15903
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
At least we know the source of your bigotry; lack of knowledge. Sexual orientation is far more than behavior alone. Civil rights deals with innate characteristics. Homosexuality being innate will be protected under civil rights laws. It doesn't take a psychic to see that.

Regardless of your "values", or lack thereof IMO, why do you care what other people do to the extent that you wish for them to be treated as inferiors under the law? I really hope you answer that.

You will never convince me that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, it is a choice to engage in socially unacceptable behavior. The tired old argument against those of us who support traditional values is that we are ignorant and lack knowledge, so it is very predictable that you have used it. Now you may be right that the courts will say it is a civil right, and the supreme court may side with gay activists but that does not mean they are constitutionally correct. The supreme court long ago stopped following the constitution, 1973 on abortion, 2011 on Obama care are just 2 examples of federal power grabs OKd by the supreme court. Proof positive that our government as the founding fathers intended it to be has failed and has usurped by the kind of tyranny the left wing is now imposing upon the states and upon the people. I will never ever accept the ideology of the leftist progressives no matter how many courts rubber stamp their views, no matter how many brainwashing movies and TV programs I watch, no matter how many young brainwashed people call me ignorant or backward. I will never accept it, NEVER. My old home state may be a lost cause, but there are lots of us left to stand against it here in red state America. I know I am in a Michigan forum so I will quit my rant as I have spoken my peace on this issue. I was never a really good northerner anyway so I guess I am where I belong. Still it never seemed that liberal years ago, traditional values used to mean something there. I don't know how it changed so much so quickly.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:31 PM
 
9,189 posts, read 16,551,334 times
Reputation: 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
You will never convince me that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, it is a choice to engage in socially unacceptable behavior. The tired old argument against those of us who support traditional values is that we are ignorant and lack knowledge, so it is very predictable that you have used it. Now you may be right that the courts will say it is a civil right, and the supreme court may side with gay activists but that does not mean they are constitutionally correct. The supreme court long ago stopped following the constitution, 1973 on abortion, 2011 on Obama care are just 2 examples of federal power grabs OKd by the supreme court. Proof positive that our government as the founding fathers intended it to be has failed and has usurped by the kind of tyranny the left wing is now imposing upon the states and upon the people. I will never ever accept the ideology of the leftist progressives no matter how many courts rubber stamp their views, no matter how many brainwashing movies and TV programs I watch, no matter how many young brainwashed people call me ignorant or backward. I will never accept it, NEVER. My old home state may be a lost cause, but there are lots of us left to stand against it here in red state America. I know I am in a Michigan forum so I will quit my rant as I have spoken my peace on this issue. I was never a really good northerner anyway so I guess I am where I belong. Still it never seemed that liberal years ago, traditional values used to mean something there. I don't know how it changed so much so quickly.
The reason you've been told that your position is ignorant and lacks knowledge is because that's the truth. Are you only heterosexual when having sex with a woman? Of course not. Sexual orientation is far more than sexual behavior. If the love of your partner/spouse to you is only sexual, I feel terribly sorry for you. Until you realize that, you'll continue to hide out in TN fearing the "gay agenda", but what's happening now in MI will make it's way to TN, because it's the right, moral thing to do.

Last edited by DetroitN8V; 03-30-2014 at 07:44 PM..
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,437 posts, read 10,717,276 times
Reputation: 15903
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
The reason you've been told that your position is ignorant and lacks knowledge is because that's the truth. Are you only heterosexual when having sex with a woman? Off course not. Sexual orientation is far more than sexual behavior. If the love of your partner/spouse to you is only sexual, I feel terribly sorry for you. Until you realize that, you'll continue to hide out in TN fearing the "gay agenda", but what's happening now in MI will make it's way to TN, because it's the right, moral thing to do.

I am not hiding out in TN, I have chosen it for my home. Also I am comfortable with my values, and I will always discount those who see me as ignorant because of the values I hold. Those people do no know me, my level of education and those people may not know the Lord. You talk about feeling sorry for me, well don't, I am happy with my values. You have your views and I have mine. At least we are in a free country where we can have these differences and speak out about them.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:01 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,897,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroptera View Post
The WaPo article on the Conservative movement I linked to above said it best - supporting gay (human) rights is a smart political move, since public opinion both worldwide and in the US is increasingly supportive of allowing same-sex to marry.

The "religious right" (remember those old bumper stickers claiming the religious right was, actually, neither? ) and the Tea Party faction are, on a global scale, going the way of dinosaurs and supporters of apartheid.

And the South is going to secede over this, LOL give me a break. Keep on flying that Confederate flag.
Since they are the poorest with the lowest quality of life, the biggest welfare queens and "takers" after two centuries of right-wing rule, if the red states secede it can only be good for the rest of us. Texas, awash in oil, should be a virtual paradise by now for all its citizens. Let them have their own third-world country, but I hate to see them take good people down with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
The reason you've been told that your position is ignorant and lacks knowledge is because that's the truth. Are you only heterosexual when having sex with a woman? Off course not. Sexual orientation is far more than sexual behavior. If the love of your partner/spouse to you is only sexual, I feel terribly sorry for you. Until you realize that, you'll continue to hide out in TN fearing the "gay agenda", but what's happening now in MI will make it's way to TN, because it's the right, moral thing to do.
Gayness has been with us since day one, is a natural part of humanity, but closeted due to fear of punishment at the hands of people like Daniel and his ilk. There has always been variety in human sexuality and it's time we recognize this fact.
This is the authoritarian right wing mentality, historically against minority human rights, clamping down on others because they don't "approve" - yet they can never give a cohesive rationale.
It's also "change" and a threat to their power. The ball is rolling with inertia and happily the dinosaurs are losing.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:02 PM
 
9,189 posts, read 16,551,334 times
Reputation: 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I am not hiding out in TN, I have chosen it for my home. Also I am comfortable with my values, and I will always discount those who see me as ignorant because of the values I hold. Those people do no know me, my level of education and those people may not know the Lord. You talk about feeling sorry for me, well don't, I am happy with my values. You have your views and I have mine. At least we are in a free country where we can have these differences and speak out about them.
You can have whatever misinformed beliefs that you want and you can even convince yourself that they're "values". When you begin to push those views on others though, advocating that they be treated as inferiors under the law, you cross the line and become horribly anti-American.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,776,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
The liberals will use courts to try and force it in the south as you say, but all it takes is one southern governor to stand up and defy the courts or nullify their ruling and this nation will have a huge constitutional crises on its hands. Using courts to push this is a violation of states rights, and the states have a right to stand up too it. We do have a 10th amendment, and yes it is still part of the bill of rights. Much to the dismay of liberals Appomattix did not end states rights in April 1865.
The States have stood up, and have lost. The State of Michigan's witnesses were actually pretty hilarious. A "sociologist" who turned out to be entirely funded by a right wing foundation out of Connecticut (?) was one, and the judge dismissed his testimony as totally unbelievable.

And your only comparison for legalized marijuana and gay marriage are hippie communes from the 1960's?? I have to ask how old you are. What an odd comparison. Despite Ronald and Nancy Reagan's attempts to demonize marijuana (War on Drugs), it has been proven that marijuana is no more dangerous for people than alcohol. In fact, studies show that the economic and social impacts of alcohol abuse have been massively worse than marijuana, including traffic deaths, domestic violence, and alcohol related health issues. Marijuana however rarely if ever results in overdoses like alcohol can.

Despite last gasp attempts to clutch onto puritanical thinking, people are getting SMARTER about these things. It's all about the access to information that is becoming more readily available.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,776,432 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I am not hiding out in TN, I have chosen it for my home. Also I am comfortable with my values, and I will always discount those who see me as ignorant because of the values I hold. Those people do no know me, my level of education and those people may not know the Lord. You talk about feeling sorry for me, well don't, I am happy with my values. You have your views and I have mine. At least we are in a free country where we can have these differences and speak out about them.
I know a lot of people who "know the Lord" who support gay marriage. Why would they not be? Encouraging couples to commit to each other long term and combine resources and assets is actually good for society. It's millions of heterosexual divorces that are ripping this country apart, and costing society $Billions in hard costs (broken homes, poor performing kids in school, families being bankrupted by court costs, layers fees, foreclosures, etc).

I always hate when people say this, but seriously it's Econ 101.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,897,981 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I am not hiding out in TN, I have chosen it for my home. Also I am comfortable with my values, and I will always discount those who see me as ignorant because of the values I hold. Those people do no know me, my level of education and those people may not know the Lord. You talk about feeling sorry for me, well don't, I am happy with my values. You have your views and I have mine. At least we are in a free country where we can have these differences and speak out about them.
Keep your own freakin' values and let other people have theirs. Have you considered that maybe it's none of your business what others do inside their own bedrooms and you have no moral right to legislate it?
If you think otherwise, please rationalize it for the rest of us.
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