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Old 04-02-2014, 09:04 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,897,981 times
Reputation: 2130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by actinic View Post
While your taxpayers dollars were going to bail out GM, the company was ruthlessly hiding for years known ignition switch failures directly causing death and injury to many. A reputable company wouldn't of hidden it. Aren't you GM bailout supporters feeling just great about it?

For those who are quick to point to Toyota, one big difference ... we didn't bail them out.

Why the Michigan forum? Expect layoffs from the publicity including suppliers. Just as Michigan was getting its feet grounded this comes around. Public trust harmed again. Fewer will buy. Maybe this time around they'll go under ... for good. So let's blame it on management! No, blame it on the union! Management! Union! Management! Union! Blah blah blah.

Here we go again.
With super-wealthy corporations getting taxpayer support, "dependent" and evidently unable to "bootstrap" themselves, why do you gleefully give your money over to them while singling out GM and wishing for its demise? This suggests an incoherent double standard and some sort of agenda, so please give a rationale.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:48 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,694,423 times
Reputation: 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
The thing I find most interesting is Mary Berra's position. So far up to now, she's been saying that she didn't know about the details surrounding the defective ignition switches... which may be true. But how do you get to the position of CEO if you aren't aware of major problems within your corporation? And how messed up is it that the previous team before her probably knew of the problem but simply passed it on to her and let the new CEO deal with it? I think that's where the biggest publicity failure is.
Given how the Detroit automakers operate with a top-own management style, it's quite possible that she didn't know about the defects.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:19 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,119 posts, read 6,568,199 times
Reputation: 4543
The bailout and the recall are two separate issues. This is a silly hindsight argument that serves no purpose. It's the equivalent of a husband telling a wife "I told you so." A complete waste of time. Next topic, please.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,776,432 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by actinic View Post
There was a personal attack and it wasn't even against me. Do your job.
"Do your job"

In the general scheme of political debates, it was a pretty weak personal attack. I let it go.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:53 PM
 
8,540 posts, read 12,281,888 times
Reputation: 16442
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO View Post
HEY! I'm from Chicago, I don't know about your politics in Michigan.

I strongly remember a pic of the smiling grinning Obama parading about and bragging how he bailed out the auto industry soon after he got in office.

DONT BE RUDE.
If you've read many of my posts, you'll know that I go to great lengths to be civil and to provide factual information which can hopefully help people. Most of my posts concern real estate issues, since I have many years of experience in that field. On occasion, I do call out people for making blatantly false statements or making troll-type posts which are meant only to incite--and which do not provide any meaningful information or discussion. In your case, I thought your one particular post fell into that category. You made a highly-biased, troll-like statement without providing any meaningful reason. Besides, your assertion is untrue by any measure.

So, yes, I did make a joke at your expense...but don't take it too personally, it was solely directed to what you wrote in your one post. (Perhaps you've made meaningful contributions elsewhere; I don't know--I don't recall ever reading a post from you before.) If you make ridiculous posts, however, you should expect to be ridiculed.

By your own admission, you don't know about the political situation in Michigan. It's apparent that you neither know about Michigan's economic climate, or how it has rebounded dramatically since the auto companies were saved by the issuance of federal loans. Yes, President Obama correctly pushed for federal support of these key manufacturing industries--and for the hundreds of thousands of American workers whose families depend upon these jobs. I'm am not a strong supporter of either major political party, but it is without question that the Republicans would have let these American industries fail (at the time, there was no private money available for the auto companies). In this one instance, the Democrats--and a few independent Republicans--did the right thing.

Lest you forget, this country was truly on the precipice of another great depression. Banks, insurance companies and numerous financial institutions had failed. The economic collapse was unparalleled since the 1930s. The stock market, which had been in the 15,000 range, plummeted to the mid-6,000 range and a bottom was nowhere in sight.

Today, the auto companies are making money (which is a prerequisite for more jobs). The financial institutions are stabilized and making money as well. The stock market, in which nearly everyone has pension money invested, is now over 16,500. By what possible measure do you feel that government assistance, in the form of loans to the auto companies, or other economic stimulus programs were not helpful to the American economy? If you think rationally about it, you will come to realize that what we did here in America was the leading factor in the recovery of the world economy.

Please refrain from making more troll-like posts--even though that's the basis of this entire thread. Peace.

Last edited by jackmichigan; 04-03-2014 at 02:09 PM..
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Rochester Hills
70 posts, read 131,848 times
Reputation: 61
In my most humble opinion, the bailout was one of the most astute decisions ever made by the government. The companies paid most of it back, and will continue to pay it back and then some in the years to come.

There is so much activity and construction happening in the area, the state has a surplus, they are building an aquarium at Great Lakes... seriously, what other mall has an aquarium? My home has gained a ton of equity. Lot's of people moving in from out of state. All I see it progress and upward movement.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:44 PM
 
9,885 posts, read 9,496,405 times
Reputation: 10060
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
If you've read many of my posts, you'll know that I go to great lengths to be civil and to provide factual information which can hopefully help people. Most of my posts concern real estate issues, since I have many years of experience in that field. On occasion, I do call out people for making blatantly false statements or making troll-type posts which are meant only to incite--and which do not provide any meaningful information or discussion. In your case, I thought your one particular post fell into that category. You made a highly-biased, troll-like statement without providing any meaningful reason. Besides, your assertion is untrue by any measure.

So, yes, I did make a joke at your expense...but don't take it too personally, it was solely directed to what you wrote in your one post. (Perhaps you've made meaningful contributions elsewhere; I don't know--I don't recall ever reading a post from you before.) If you make ridiculous posts, however, you should expect to be ridiculed.

By your own admission, you don't know about the political situation in Michigan. It's apparent that you neither know about Michigan's economic climate, or how it has rebounded dramatically since the auto companies were saved by the issuance of federal loans. Yes, President Obama correctly pushed for federal support of these key manufacturing industries--and for the hundreds of thousands of American workers whose families depend upon these jobs. I'm am not a strong supporter of either major political party, but it is without question that the Republicans would have let these American industries fail (at the time, there was no private money available for the auto companies). In this one instance, the Democrats--and a few independent Republicans--did the right thing.

Lest you forget, this country was truly on the precipice of another great depression. Banks, insurance companies and numerous financial institutions had failed. The economic collapse was unparalleled since the 1930s. The stock market, which had been in the 15,000 range, plummeted to the mid-6,000 range and a bottom was nowhere in sight.

Today, the auto companies are making money (which is a prerequisite for more jobs). The financial institutions are stabilized and making money as well. The stock market, in which nearly everyone has pension money invested, is now over 16,500. By what possible measure do you feel that government assistance, in the form of loans to the auto companies, or other economic stimulus programs were not helpful to the American economy? If you think rationally about it, you will come to realize that what we did here in America was the leading factor in the recovery of the world economy.

Please refrain from making more troll-like posts--even though that's the basis of this entire thread. Peace.
Hi Jack - I'm not a troll, and Im not stupid. I have been on this website for many a years but post more in the chicago thread. I am a yearly visitor to Michigan so i sometimes come over here to read about topics. and sometimes i comment with my opinions and observations and a memory of a speech by Obama in the past. I would not know if i made a troll like post because I do not feel my opinions are trollish, though you may disagree with me. Hence, Im not a troll on purpose just to bug you or cause a ruckus. so if you feel what i say is incorrect, it means you disagree with me and i will give you some credit because your name implies you are a citizen of Michigan vs me a visitor to Michigan.

but regarding your explanation, regarding giving money/bailouts to companies, I just wish they would have been more fruitful.. Seems like the bailout to the auto industry - if this one company is not succedding, was only giving good money to bad. Thats my frustration. I am no fan of obama as I feel he ruined America and will keep on ruining it if nothing stops him. Looks like whatever Obama did just ruined things and did not help it. Maybe it was a bandaid solution. i also am of the opinion that unions are not good for us anymore, as many unions seem to be selfish, and not look for the greater good, i.e. when the unions protect (in the news this week) a pedophile who sexually abused a student, the unions protected the CTA train driver who crashed it into O'Hare CTA terminal, causing $6 million damage and the union is protecting the driver so she can keep her job.

i could go on but i better stop because i will just increase my anger at unions and obama and the damage they have done.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,897,981 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO View Post
Hi Jack - I'm not a troll, and Im not stupid. I have been on this website for many a years but post more in the chicago thread. I am a yearly visitor to Michigan so i sometimes come over here to read about topics. and sometimes i comment with my opinions and observations and a memory of a speech by Obama in the past. I would not know if i made a troll like post because I do not feel my opinions are trollish, though you may disagree with me. Hence, Im not a troll on purpose just to bug you or cause a ruckus. so if you feel what i say is incorrect, it means you disagree with me and i will give you some credit because your name implies you are a citizen of Michigan vs me a visitor to Michigan.

but regarding your explanation, regarding giving money/bailouts to companies, I just wish they would have been more fruitful.. Seems like the bailout to the auto industry - if this one company is not succedding, was only giving good money to bad. Thats my frustration. I am no fan of obama as I feel he ruined America and will keep on ruining it if nothing stops him. Looks like whatever Obama did just ruined things and did not help it. Maybe it was a bandaid solution. i also am of the opinion that unions are not good for us anymore, as many unions seem to be selfish, and not look for the greater good, i.e. when the unions protect (in the news this week) a pedophile who sexually abused a student, the unions protected the CTA train driver who crashed it into O'Hare CTA terminal, causing $6 million damage and the union is protecting the driver so she can keep her job.

i could go on but i better stop because i will just increase my anger at unions and obama and the damage they have done.
Why is Congress out of your picture? Do you know what its responsibilities are? You believe Congress doesn't affect your life?
People are blaming Obama for what Congress is doing or not doing, and both McConnell and Boehner prefer to hide in the shadows until they choose to make a statement to the media. You really should check on them, and note how they are obstructing jobs legislation etc. Seriously.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:48 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,169 posts, read 22,604,535 times
Reputation: 17328
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO View Post
Thank you Obama for bailing out GM. Another failure of Obama. Another failure of unions.
This current fiasco with GM has nothing to do with the unions. Management approved the defective switches. The autoworkers on the assembly line more than likely didn't know that the part was defective. This is all on management, plus whoever engineered the defective part.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:11 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,694,423 times
Reputation: 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
This current fiasco with GM has nothing to do with the unions. Management approved the defective switches. The autoworkers on the assembly line more than likely didn't know that the part was defective. This is all on management, plus whoever engineered the defective part.
Gosh darn it!!!

Why must we always let the facts get in the way of senseless banter!?
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