[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by magellan

It won't be the governor, it won't be General Motors, and it probably won't be any of our current largest employers on the scene now. It will be dudes and dudettes working out of their garages or basements feeling like they are in an environment where the State is cheering them on, through countless hours of sweat and failure, that will turn this state around. Where will the new Henry Ford's come from?

You won't get slammed by me, either. For the most part I agree with your conclusions.

The one idea I am really exploring is the possibility that we will eventually cease to have a global culture as oil shortages get worse. That's one of the key issues just starting to be raised in the food industry: as more people question the link between use of fossil fuels and global warming concerns, it's causing them to look critically at the idea of getting all our food from other places around the world. And I know that food is only part of it - eventually if fuel prices continue to rise (which it is expected that they will) it will become less attractive to import all our goods and outsource jobs. A lot of the jobs that have been outsourced will have to return and maybe even be performed on a more local scale, and the people who know how to do those things will have the advantage.

I am also starting to believe that although in the short term there may be other parts of the country where it is easier to be prosperous, I don't think that's likely to continue indefinitely. I really think that the lower standard of living in MI is probably a sign of things to come for the rest of the country and those of us living on less now will be better prepared if current trends continue. While I miss the relative prosperity of the Dallas/Fort Worth area I experienced when I lived there, the culture as a whole was much more consumption-driven than almost anything I've seen in MI and I can't even imagine what would happen if the bottom fell out of that. Especially since they have one of the highest per-capita gun ownership rates

I do tend to agree that individual innovators (and craftspeople) are going to provide the best hope for turning this state around. One thing I have to say about MI is that our public education system is excellent compared to many of the booming areas in the South, and that may also work in our favor. We have a lot of resources left in MI that other states will want, including our people; I think it's just a question of how many people can stick it out while waiting for things to turn around or trying to figure out what they can do.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

You won't get slammed by me, either. For the most part I agree with your conclusions.

The one idea I am really exploring is the possibility that we will eventually cease to have a global culture as oil shortages get worse. That's one of the key issues just starting to be raised in the food industry: as more people question the link between use of fossil fuels and global warming concerns, it's causing them to look critically at the idea of getting all our food from other places around the world. And I know that food is only part of it - eventually if fuel prices continue to rise (which it is expected that they will) it will become less attractive to import all our goods and outsource jobs. A lot of the jobs that have been outsourced will have to return and maybe even be performed on a more local scale, and the people who know how to do those things will have the advantage.

I am also starting to believe that although in the short term there may be other parts of the country where it is easier to be prosperous, I don't think that's likely to continue indefinitely. I really think that the lower standard of living in MI is probably a sign of things to come for the rest of the country and those of us living on less now will be better prepared if current trends continue. While I miss the relative prosperity of the Dallas/Fort Worth area I experienced when I lived there, the culture as a whole was much more consumption-driven than almost anything I've seen in MI and I can't even imagine what would happen if the bottom fell out of that. Especially since they have one of the highest per-capita gun ownership rates

I do tend to agree that individual innovators (and craftspeople) are going to provide the best hope for turning this state around. One thing I have to say about MI is that our public education system is excellent compared to many of the booming areas in the South, and that may also work in our favor. We have a lot of resources left in MI that other states will want, including our people; I think it's just a question of how many people can stick it out while waiting for things to turn around or trying to figure out what they can do.

Thanks! Definitely my philosophy requires a lot of patience, intestinal fortitude and an "attitude" shift at the grass roots level. If you look at the successes in Grand Rapids and West Michigan, you can track it to a tremendous amount of grass roots organizations and an entrepreneurial spirit that is prevalent in the region. West Michigan is still dominated by thousands of small mom and pop shops and businesses, many of which have nothing to do with the automotive industry. They have helped keep this area above water despite the rest of the state continuing to lose jobs. No major corporations have moved in, no special tax rates have been set up (except for Ren Zones which are all over the state), not much different from the rest of the state fundamentally. And the companies that do supply the automotive industry either have patented technology (Gentex, Lacks Industries and Cascade Engineering for instance), have taken on more and more foreign automotive work, or have greatly diversified out of automotive.

Not to slam on the Detroit area and Michigan more, but you can see a striking difference in employment growth between the West and East sides of the state (from the bls.gov website):

Upper left - Grand Rapids MSA
Lower Left - Detroit - Livonia - Warren
Right: Michigan



I think it has a lot to do with Southeast Michigan being dominated by large corporations, most notably the Detroit Big 3 but also by hundreds and hundreds of big corporate Tier I suppliers like Lear, Delphi, Dana, Dura, Magna, Siemens, TRW, etc..

And the healthcare industry is only sustainable and will grow an economy in the long run IF it provides healthcare services to people OUTSIDE of Michigan. Like the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. Or by pharma companies that provide products and services to the whole country. If it's just hospitals serving the local population, sure it provides some employment but it's just shifting money around.

I think we Michiganians have to take things into our own hands and get involved at the grass roots level. Join every organization that sounds remotely interesting that you think will make your area better. You'd be surprised how many ideas are thrown around. And be open to new and radical ideas at the State level. If we are afraid of small failures, we will surely not experience big successes. It needs to become Michigan's new "attitude". If 1% of 10 Million Michiganians did that, that's 100,000 people actively participating in Michigan's rebirth!

Hey, George Erickcek of the Upjohn Institute is saying the same thing today:

MLive.com: Everything Michigan

Another interesting read:

MEDC chief: State needs positive attitude - Tri-Cities Business Review - MLive.com

How we portray our state to the rest of the country is horrible and needs to change.

[Coldjensens]

I think that many people in Michigan do not realize how good some things in Michigan are. The public education system is excellent. most schools in Detroit are an exception, but otherwise it is great. We have an incredible number of top tier universities and colleges in various fields for the size of our state. Our infrastructure is excellent although it is wearing out more quickly than it is being maintained/repaired. Health care here is better and cheaper than many many other places. We are centrally located with great access to the rest of the country by rail, road air or water. We have plenty of water and open land available as well as a large number of unused or under used commercial and industrial buildings. And now, of course, housing bargains are abundant.


We really need to promote the state's advantages and make our residents and other companies realize this.

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

I do tend to agree that individual innovators (and craftspeople) are going to provide the best hope for turning this state around. One thing I have to say about MI is that our public education system is excellent compared to many of the booming areas in the South, and that may also work in our favor. We have a lot of resources left in MI that other states will want, including our people; I think it's just a question of how many people can stick it out while waiting for things to turn around or trying to figure out what they can do.

If their potential is unleashed, the individual entrenpenuers will affect change in this state. But look only to this excerpt from the Lansing State Journal on the new MBT (Michigan Business Tax)to temper that enthusiasm:

The new MBT is based on modified gross receipts and income. It is designed to give tax credits to companies that add jobs, invest in equipment or do research and development in Michigan. The deal provides personal property tax relief on equipment and machinery.

"It rewarded Michigan businesses for doing the things we want them to do," said House Speaker Andy Dillon, D-Redford Township.

Out-of-state companies and some financial services firms won't fare as well under the MBT as under the old tax structure.

Isn't the quote from our House Speaker right out of George Orwell. He admits that only Lansing is smart enough to dictate "the things we (Lansing politicians) want them (businesses) to do". Wow! (or Wow! squared).

Suddenly there should be no individual innovation - we must be led to water to do the things that "we want them to do".

We also read in various posts on this subject the need to diversify from automotive and manufacturing. Yet look at where the tax breaks go - not to the innovators and vital new services companies, not to out of state companies that we should welcome, but to capital equipment. Not that investing in capital equipment is a bad thing, but I'm sure Bill Gates wasn't looking for help on punch press funding when he started Microsoft.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by UpperPeninsulaRon

If their potential is unleashed, the individual entrenpenuers will affect change in this state.

Look guys if what UP Ron is saying is true. You guys need to be firing alot of your elected officials Democrats, Republicans, Whatever.
Guys I'm telling you there are so many people where I at. (currently 20 mins outside of NYC) That want to start businesses but are held back by the expense and Bureaucracy in the area. If your state would lend itself not only bring in offices from outside businesses. But made it that they would create an environment where new entrepreneurs that incorporate in the state get top rate incentives to do so. This includes, 1.heavy tax break for the first five years of business as long as the companies headquarters is located in the state. 2. relaxation of some environmental rules. granted we don't want to get crazy and start dumping sludge into the lakes, but relax the rules a little. 3. Now this will sounds counter productive but I think the state should assist New larger cooperation in finding/financing living accommodations for new employees of that corp. that have to relocate to the state. I know, I know it cost money. But you want to get the best workers that you can to come to Michigan. This will help in the long run because more than likely these employees usually have a desire to become employers and will eventually start there own business as well. So get them in and move them up.
Now two other things not specifically related to business but a general perception of Michigan from outsiders. 1. Outsider right now think Michigan is Detroit. And when when most people think of Detroit. And may I just say it not a positive perception of Michigan. You guys have got to push that Michigan is a lot more that Detroit. Push grand Rapids, Push Traverse City Push anywhere where positive stuff is happing. Get a buzz going. Not just the "Michigan the Upper Hand" commercial. Nobody paid attention to those. You got to get some Representatives out there and Push, Push, Push. 2. Look guys. I don't know if you know this. But a lot of the nation is watch you guys with the upcoming primaries in your state. Especially on the Republican side. I think the media is going to descend on you like vultures to a kill. So this is you chance to show the good side of Michigan and to voice your concerns/hopes to a national audience. Basically it free TV time for your state so use it. Don't just vote. Try to get out there and be seen by those cameras and if you lucky enough to get interviewed national report or whatever. Take that ball and roll with it. Show the country what Michigan is all about.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by baystater

Look guys if what UP Ron is saying is true. You guys need to be firing alot of your elected officials Democrats, Republicans, Whatever.
Guys I'm telling you there are so many people where I at. (currently 20 mins outside of NYC) That want to start businesses but are held back by the expense and Bureaucracy in the area. If your state would lend itself not only bring in offices from outside businesses. But made it that they would create an environment where new entrepreneurs that incorporate in the state get top rate incentives to do so. This includes, 1.heavy tax break for the first five years of business as long as the companies headquarters is located in the state. 2. relaxation of some environmental rules. granted we don't want to get crazy and start dumping sludge into the lakes, but relax the rules a little. 3. Now this will sounds counter productive but I think the state should assist New larger cooperation in finding/financing living accommodations for new employees of that corp. that have to relocate to the state. I know, I know it cost money. But you want to get the best workers that you can to come to Michigan. This will help in the long run because more than likely these employees usually have a desire to become employers and will eventually start there own business as well. So get them in and move them up.
Now two other things not specifically related to business but a general perception of Michigan from outsiders. 1. Outsider right now think Michigan is Detroit. And when when most people think of Detroit. And may I just say it not a positive perception of Michigan. You guys have got to push that Michigan is a lot more that Detroit. Push grand Rapids, Push Traverse City Push anywhere where positive stuff is happing. Get a buzz going. Not just the "Michigan the Upper Hand" commercial. Nobody paid attention to those. You got to get some Representatives out there and Push, Push, Push. 2. Look guys. I don't know if you know this. But a lot of the nation is watch you guys with the upcoming primaries in your state. Especially on the Republican side. I think the media is going to descend on you like vultures to a kill. So this is you chance to show the good side of Michigan and to voice your concerns/hopes to a national audience. Basically it free TV time for your state so use it. Don't just vote. Try to get out there and be seen by those cameras and if you lucky enough to get interviewed national report or whatever. Take that ball and roll with it. Show the country what Michigan is all about.

You can actually get tax credits in Michigan to help pay for environmental cleanup on contaminated sites, called Brownfield Redevelopment Credits. It's used A LOT in the Grand Rapids area because of its old industrial sites being reused. Cabela's is even trying to use the credits to clean up an old apple orchard property in the NW suburbs.

[mich2fla]

Good topic.

Some folks do not have a choice so they move on to greener pastures. I know that Michigan will eventually bounce back. It will take some time.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by mich2fla

Good topic.

Some folks do not have a choice so they move on to greener pastures. I know that Michigan will eventually bounce back. It will take some time.

Yes -- a lot can depend on someone's circumstances. If one can telecommunicate, then it doesn't matter where he lives, someone younger and starting out needs to get a resume started and cannot have large gaps with unemployment.

If I was 18-22 and not having much luck with getting a job to get a resume going -- then I'd be packing up and heading out. You can't always sit and wait and think it's going to come to you.

But others are in more a position to make things happen, or they're at the end of their career and retirement makes it a whole lot more flexible. Someone with family around has a different situation than someone who doesn't -- who might not have that to fall back on.

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by mich2fla

Good topic.

Some folks do not have a choice so they move on to greener pastures. I know that Michigan will eventually bounce back. It will take some time.

I agree that MI will eventually bounce back, but I too think it will take a while. I have student loans to repay soon and 3 young children - I don't know how long I can personally wait for MI to turn around, but I am glad there are still people here who can do it and who believe in the state. I wouldn't be surprised if (particularly once water shortages hit the desert southwest on a widespread basis) MI will become a very attractive place to live in the future. The problem in the short term for a lot of us is that it's hard to be a visionary and have loyalty like that when you can't find adequate work to pay your bills.

[farfromdrunken]

We still have the highest unemployment rate in the nation, and job flooding out of state and or country, and with a nation or world wide recession on the horizion I do not think michigan will be comming out of this any time soon.

"The underlying economies of Michigan and Ohio are that bad relative to California and Florida," said Doug Duncan, chief economist for the Mortgage Bankers Association.

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