U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-06-2016, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,082,862 times
Reputation: 3911

Advertisements

It's now come out in emails obtained by the press that Snyder's staff knew about the spike in Legionnaires Disease in Flint/Genessee County back in early 2015, even though Snyder said in a press conference recently that he just heard about it this year. And that there were concerns that it was related to the water switch. Again, nothing was done and no alarms were raised, the public wasn't notified.

As Jack Lessenberry puts it:

We now have a situation in which the best the governor’s supporters can do is claim that he was an incompetent administrator who set up a dysfunctional staff system.I thought for the first time yesterday that there now is a chance this governor might have to resign.

What did Snyder know and when did he know it? | Michigan Radio
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-06-2016, 09:19 AM
 
211 posts, read 566,579 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
It's now come out in emails obtained by the press that Snyder's staff knew about the spike in Legionnaires Disease in Flint/Genessee County back in early 2015, even though Snyder said in a press conference recently that he just heard about it this year. And that there were concerns that it was related to the water switch. Again, nothing was done and no alarms were raised, the public wasn't notified.

As Jack Lessenberry puts it:

We now have a situation in which the best the governor’s supporters can do is claim that he was an incompetent administrator who set up a dysfunctional staff system.I thought for the first time yesterday that there now is a chance this governor might have to resign.

What did Snyder know and when did he know it? | Michigan Radio
The public wasn't notified? Of what?

The fact that there was a spike in Legionnaires disease in Genesee County in 2014 and 2015 was widely reported in the press at the time.

Family reeling after mother dies of Legionnaires

Otisville woman diagnosed with Legionnaires' disease dies

Revisionist history to claim that the public was not aware of an increase in Legionnaires disease in Genesee Co. when it was occurring.

Let's also be clear, there has been no definitive link established between the uptick of the disease and the Flint municipal water system, lot's of speculation but no actual proof. Couple that with the fact that roughly half of those who contracted the disease in Genesee County had no known contact with water from the Flint water system and it certainly raises questions as to whether there was a common source for contamination or whether there were multiple common sources that were unrelated.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2016, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,785 posts, read 2,427,880 times
Reputation: 3594
Please don't take this post as me trying to marginalize what's going in Flint. What's going in Flint is terrible. It needs to be fixed and the lead and copper rule needs to be clear so that it doesn't happen again.

But I also want to point out that what's going on in Flint is not unique to Flint (well, parts of the specific situation may be, but the fact that they have bad water isn't). It has just become a media darling so everyone knows about it. It's also bringing other similar stories to the front page. The issue here, and nationally, is that poor and impoverished areas have over taxed and aged infrastructure that their original engineers never intended to last as long as we've been using them. Our infrastructure is old in America and we don't seem to be making it a priority.

Here's a story about lead issues in New Jersey:
Kids in 11 N.J. cities have higher lead levels than Flint, Mich.

Here's a similar article regarding Pennsylvania:
Report: 18 Cities In Pennsylvania With Higher Lead Exposure Than Flint « CBS Pittsburgh

Here's a story focusing on Louisiana, but also mentioning Kentucky, Tennessee and Mississippi and the incredible water quality problems they're having:
Beyond Flint, Michigan: In The South, Another Water Crisis Has Been Unfolding For Years : NPR

Is it "worse" in Flint? Well, I don't know. I don't think I should be the one to make a judgment call on that, but if nothing else, I hope the issues in Flint can be a spark to Americans everywhere - especially in older, impoverished areas, that we need to put more emphasis on, as Senator Sanders would say, "...putting young people back to work, rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure." I think this should extend to items beyond water pipes as well. Roads, power lines, sewage... in older places much of it going to crap.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2016, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,082,862 times
Reputation: 3911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jswee View Post
The public wasn't notified? Of what?

The fact that there was a spike in Legionnaires disease in Genesee County in 2014 and 2015 was widely reported in the press at the time.

Family reeling after mother dies of Legionnaires

Otisville woman diagnosed with Legionnaires' disease dies

Revisionist history to claim that the public was not aware of an increase in Legionnaires disease in Genesee Co. when it was occurring.

Let's also be clear, there has been no definitive link established between the uptick of the disease and the Flint municipal water system, lot's of speculation but no actual proof. Couple that with the fact that roughly half of those who contracted the disease in Genesee County had no known contact with water from the Flint water system and it certainly raises questions as to whether there was a common source for contamination or whether there were multiple common sources that were unrelated.
Ha. Did you even read the articles you posted? I didn't see anything from city or county officials letting the residents that there was a SPIKE in Legionnaires disease. In fact, in the articles, they say it's either due to warm weather or that the entire country is experiencing an uptick. A newspaper article is not the same as state and local officials bringing it to the public's attention.

You're way too defensive for just a casual bystander. I have my eyes on you Jswee and may just ban you outright.

Last edited by magellan; 02-06-2016 at 07:42 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2016, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,082,862 times
Reputation: 3911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Please don't take this post as me trying to marginalize what's going in Flint. What's going in Flint is terrible. It needs to be fixed and the lead and copper rule needs to be clear so that it doesn't happen again.

But I also want to point out that what's going on in Flint is not unique to Flint (well, parts of the specific situation may be, but the fact that they have bad water isn't). It has just become a media darling so everyone knows about it. It's also bringing other similar stories to the front page. The issue here, and nationally, is that poor and impoverished areas have over taxed and aged infrastructure that their original engineers never intended to last as long as we've been using them. Our infrastructure is old in America and we don't seem to be making it a priority.

Here's a story about lead issues in New Jersey:
Kids in 11 N.J. cities have higher lead levels than Flint, Mich.

Here's a similar article regarding Pennsylvania:
Report: 18 Cities In Pennsylvania With Higher Lead Exposure Than Flint « CBS Pittsburgh

Here's a story focusing on Louisiana, but also mentioning Kentucky, Tennessee and Mississippi and the incredible water quality problems they're having:
Beyond Flint, Michigan: In The South, Another Water Crisis Has Been Unfolding For Years : NPR

Is it "worse" in Flint? Well, I don't know. I don't think I should be the one to make a judgment call on that, but if nothing else, I hope the issues in Flint can be a spark to Americans everywhere - especially in older, impoverished areas, that we need to put more emphasis on, as Senator Sanders would say, "...putting young people back to work, rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure." I think this should extend to items beyond water pipes as well. Roads, power lines, sewage... in older places much of it going to crap.
You don't know GeoAggie? I read all three of your articles and they're talking about lead PAINT in the first one, aging infrastructure in the second one, and the third one is talking about broken pipes. I agree, all bad situations that stem from the overall neglect of infrastructure.

Not one of those situations deals with what happened in Flint: people in high leadership who knew there was going to be a problem and did nothing to prevent it. And then when things started happening that they'd been warned would happen, still did nothing.

Last edited by magellan; 02-06-2016 at 07:33 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2016, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,785 posts, read 2,427,880 times
Reputation: 3594
The second one actually talks about paint being the primary culprit too.

I will agree that there were some unique issues to the problem in Flint, but when we're looking at 23.11% of results in Allentown, PA being above 5 ug/dL for lead, vs 3.21% in Flint, that's roughly 7x higher. Can we really say it's a bigger issue in Flint? Just because there is no Department of Paint-Your-Homes in PA doesn't mean there aren't people in leadership positions not doing anything. 23.11% feels like a bit of a public health emergency. If I was living in Allentown, PA, I'd be freaking out. They are both major issues. They should both be treated as such.

As for broken pipes, well that tends to happen when we have aging infrastructure. What health impacts has that water had on kids (and adults) in the south? The water in Louisiana looks just as nasty as anything I've seen come out of Flint. I imagine widespread test results would prove it has significant issues too. Well, we don't know, because it seems their leaders don't particularly care - if they did it would get fixed. Unfortunately I think this story plays out all over the country far more often than we want to admit. Something goes wrong. There are solutions, but they cost a lot. Leaders tend to see how long they can go, playing triage, until something major goes wrong. Then they downplay it. Then the media creates a mob. Then they have to actually address it.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that a better situation would be to bring all of these things to light and make sure people know about them. If something as significant as "your water may poison you" is at hand, we'd better make funds.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2016, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,785 posts, read 2,427,880 times
Reputation: 3594
Let's talk about C.

Has there yet been a conclusive link between the water switch and the legionnaires disease?

Note: Before attacking me, this is a question. I am not privy to this information due to any sort of tin-foil hat conspiracy group, and I've not read an article on the subject for a few weeks.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2016, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,082,862 times
Reputation: 3911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Let's talk about C.

Has there yet been a conclusive link between the water switch and the legionnaires disease?

Note: Before attacking me, this is a question. I am not privy to this information due to any sort of tin-foil hat conspiracy group, and I've not read an article on the subject for a few weeks.
Here is the latest. It has changed quite a bit in the last few days:

Editorial: Snyder must produce all emails immediately

An additional MDEQ official has been fired:

FLINT UPDATE: DEQ administrator has now been fired because of the water crisis - News - WIN 98.5 Your Country - WNWN FM - Battle Creek, MI
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2016, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,201 posts, read 1,757,851 times
Reputation: 1373
Many of the kids diagnosed with high lead levels need celation IV therapy as most in that area have heavy metal blood levels anyway the place is a cesspool. Many adults and possibly pregnant women must rid there systems of contaminants not withstanding down stream towns beyond Flint. Meanwhile impeach the Governor, fire the entire water department administrators timmediately ( prepare for a unionized fight). Fire the regional EPA and bring in a team of experts . Provide all homes with three 1 gallon Seychelle water filters ( good for 200 gallons and only filter in the world to remove toxic chemicals). Three pint Filters for work. Begin removing lead pipes ( this will require 300-400 front end loaders and duumpsters for lead pipe disposal. A designated area to dump pipe on a massive basis must be going 10 acres minimum. This should begin no later than Friday of next week. Continue bottle water distribution from Walmart and others.

Last edited by openmike; 02-07-2016 at 10:53 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2016, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,082,862 times
Reputation: 3911
Snyder has been invited to the second congressional hearing on the Flint Water Crisis and has declined:

Governor Snyder won't accept invitation to testify at new congressional hearing | News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | WEYI

Much of what needs to take place for a long term fix will have to come from the Federal government. Doesn't it behoove him to go and make the case on behalf of Flint residents and the State?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top