Why Do People Leave The U.P.? (Marquette: relocation, luxury)

[wordsmith680]

Ya eh, It's different........can't wait to get the sauna ("sona") done. Now have to live with just a tub on the deck!

[DRD]

My family and I are relocating to the Soo area this summer for health reasons.

I'm from Ontario originally but have lived in the US since 1992.

In 2004 I had stents put in my heart and since then have been uninsurable anywhere here in the US.

My only hope is to get a job in Canada and go back on their health care.

Anyways, does anyone know what we're looking at as far as services in the Soo area?

We have an 19 year old daughter who was disabled in an auto accident last May and her 18 month old son.

As I mentioned earlier, I am from Canada, about 100 miles south of James Bay so I know what cold is.

What type of stores are in Sault Ste Marie area? Restaurants? And what does it cost to heat up there in the winter?

[DRD]

Sounds like where I live here in the south! Good grief!

Here we have to drive sixty miles to get to a town with 45000 people in it, the sidewalks are rolled up here in downtown by five o'clock and there's not a restaurant open after 10 pm.

On top of that you have to contend with flys, snakes and the unbearable heat fom March to November.

To make it even more interesting, you have to live Jeff Foxworthy's "You Might Be A Redneck If" everyday ffrom sun up to sun down.

[keith talent]

Originally Posted by wordsmith680

And yes if you aren't too ambitious and a little inventive, you can live fairly well on a limited income. I'm lucky enough to have wood of my own to burn (no heating bill) and be healthy enough to be able to cut and split it.

This may be the future for many of us! After reading Alaska threads, too, about the huge effect the price of heating oil is having, I'm wondering about how much wood it takes to get through a northern winter in a not-too-big house. Would the logs from 1 or 2 decent-sized maples be enough?

I've got a place up in the Catskills where I could possibly live like this (on 17 acres of woodland), but wonder how sustainable it would be to "live off the land" in that way. Guess 40 or 50 trees would hardly be missed over the years, though. Can't say that in a lot of parts of Alaska, I'd think.

[wordsmith680]

I heat a well constructed (6" walls & lots of insulation )about 1500 sq ft with aprox 4-5 cords of hardwood. Southern exposure w/ windows to raise the pasive solar impact helps. There is a suprising amount of firewood from a large tree, but I think it might take a few more to get you through. A quality stove makes a huge difference. Outdoor stoves are very popular now. Keep in mind to try to make do with "clean up", dead,damaged or undesirable trees. Once there gone there gone. I have a forester cruise and mark what to cut to manage the plot. We need to manage to control disease and pests. Oak should not be cut or even trimmed during warm months.

[bryan61]

Most of my aunts uncles and other extended family and friends from when I was younger left to find better paying jobs and to get away from the harsh winters. Ive lived up here all of my working life and you can make a go of it if you are motivated and have some marketable skills. Truck driver, RN, plumber or HVAC, madchinist, heavy equip operator, electrician etc...Professionals usually get lucky and move here from other places. No matter whether skilled or professional be prepared to take less money than in more robust economies which goes along with a lower COL.

Theres two general factors at least for me that drive a persons decision on where to live, economics and environment. I never left the UP because I could always find a just barely good enough job that allowed me to stay here close to family and in what i consider a pristine environment the harsh winters aside. At some point the Economics can tip that position and really force a move and thats what is happening now. My wife graduated with a BS in accounting last december and has been offered a position in a large city in the midwest that we would be foolish to turn down from an economic standpoint. Also I will probably be able to double or triple my income which will be gravy. I'd rather raise my kids(3 and 4 years old) in the UP but I think with the money we will be making we should be able to better provide for them with respect to their futures. I will always be able to return to the UP and keep them in touch with the family, legacy and culture in which they were born.

Alot of folk seem to eventually return and retire in the UP. Most of my aunts and uncles did and friends who visit say they miss the UP and will eventually come back on a permanent or semi permanent basis (snowbirds). What I cant understand is people who come here without real strong family ties to the area or a love for the outdoors. I guess for some retirees or people on a fixed incomes its the low COL

I was born and raised in a large city in the south and moved to the UP when I was in HS. Here again my mom left for better economic conditions, eventually got her RN which is high demand everywhere, so as a family she moved us all back. Im glad she did because I learned alot in a rural environment that I wouldnt have had the opportunity living in a city. I must say that after 30 years I am excited about the upcoming move and the opportunities it will bring.

[JustT&Me]

A lot of really great posts here in such a short thread. I'm currently in the Midwest & have spent a lot of time in MI & considering moving to the U.P. (besides a few other states). I'm aware of the long winters, isolation, poor economy, lack of jobs, etc. Primarily, I love the outdoors, the Lake (S.), the rocky shoreline, & the quietness of areas that most ppl would rather leave. I lived awhile in AK, & the U.P. also reminds me of that which I like, and it'd much closer to visit family in the South (compared to AK). I don't like city life or the materialism & the fast pace that goes along with it. Nice places to visit, but not for me. So... I'm at least somewhat familiar with it.

Jumped on this thread bc it seemed wise to read why ppl are leaving in my process of deciding if it'd be wise to move there.

A few main concerns (besides finding work) would be trying to keep the snow shoveled off the roof and the high cost of heating:

I've heard/read it can cost an ave. of $600/month for heating, but I wasn't told what type of heat, and obviously that would make a huge difference. I've been looking at some homes, but none of them have fp/s, and I'm wondering if it really makes that much of a difference that it would pay to have one put in, or in an older house restored if it's been drywalled in? Nothing like a fresh-burning wood fire. What feedback can you provide re: heating costs besides? What are ave. cord prices in the U.P. if you don't cut your own? Can you pay the state (for less) and cut it from the forest areas?

About how often (ave.) are ppl up on their roofs pushing snow off? I've seen photos both past & current & read ppl's blogs re: how time-consuming it is. As a single female, I wouldn't be able to spend a lot of time up on the roof, and I don't think I'd want to be up there on my own in the winter anyway unless I really had to - I certainly could. What are the ave. prices to pay someone to push it down for say about a 1600 sf - 2000 sf two-story home? How are these prices generally charged - by the hour, the job?

Thanks!

[JustT&Me]

Originally Posted by wordsmith680

I heat a well constructed (6" walls & lots of insulation )about 1500 sq ft with aprox 4-5 cords of hardwood. Southern exposure w/ windows to raise the pasive solar impact helps. There is a suprising amount of firewood from a large tree, but I think it might take a few more to get you through. A quality stove makes a huge difference. Outdoor stoves are very popular now. Keep in mind to try to make do with "clean up", dead,damaged or undesirable trees. Once there gone there gone. I have a forester cruise and mark what to cut to manage the plot. We need to manage to control disease and pests. Oak should not be cut or even trimmed during warm months.

Great post - helpfully informative. A couple of Q's in relation to your post here which are different Q's from my previous post:

1. I've been looking at some older homes and noticed most of the windows are quite small and few in number. I love natural light & always had a lot of windows. Are/were the homes built w/fewer and smaller windows due to the longer, colder winters? I was thinking if I bought a place, I might want to put some newer, larger ones in - feedback?
2. About how much is a cord of wood? Is there a big difference in the different types of wood as far as pricing and burning for what's available in the U.P. north of the H/H bridge?
3. What IYO are some better quality stoves? (Brands, type, whatever - )
4. When you say the outdoor stoves are popular - do you mean to use inside (since you were talking about heating your home)? And if so, why?
5. If I left for the winter (snowbird), as long as I had the water main turned off, couldn't I just turn off the heat as well and head South? Or would I still have to leave the heat set at some minimal temp while I'd be gone?

Heating costs are one of my main concerns, and you seem to have some helpful knowledge regarding such. THANK YOU!

[JustT&Me]

Originally Posted by keith talent

...I've got a place up in the Catskills where I could possibly live like this (on 17 acres of woodland), but wonder how sustainable it would be to "live off the land" in that way...

Sounds like a nice place, Keith. I'm looking to possibly move to the U.P. (or maybe AK - lived there for awhile - aspects of the U.P. remind me of AK). I'm wondering - in the U.P. isn't it quite rocky? When you asked about "how sustainable it would be to 'live off the land' in that way" were you primarily referring to the firewood issue? OR were you also planning on any hunting, fishing, gardening, grey water, alternative wind/solar power, etc.? Just wondering since you'd brought it up - how feasible that would be in the U.P. I'm looking to do something similar.

Thank you.

[wordsmith680]

Best of luck on your move.....whever it might be! No one from the UP is prone to tall tails. There is statistically no more snow in some southern areas than Ohio or other areas of the midwest. The difference can be how long is stays. Part of the 40 - 50 in. per winter can still be on the ground in April / may. Even the city of marquette has reasonable amounts. Depending on house design and location, no shoveling required. It is colder but it keeps things cleaner, not sloppy. As you have looked around the forum I don't need to tell you there are good people wherever you go, some places just have lots more of them. As to heating.... the range is huge. I pay several heating bills, one for a 4plex (older bldg) haven't had a bill over 500 this season. (hope I don't tempt fate, it has been colder last mo.) Nat gas is still most reasonable but rising fast. Wood is only a good choice if you have your own. Firewood is expensive and has other costs (chainsaw, spliting, transporting, higher insurance for the htg appliance).