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Old 08-01-2017, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Central Mass
2,622 posts, read 2,903,465 times
Reputation: 2896

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
The same reason why I didn't lump Jackson or Toledo or Flint with Detroit. There isn't 30 minutes of farmersonly.com between Detroit and Ann Arbor. There are a number of Detroit suburbs that are closer to Ann Arbor than Detroit. In fact, outside of the greenbelt the development is pretty continuous. Is there continuous sprawl from GR to Kzoo? or is the southern most suburb of GR closer to Kzoo then it is GR? is Kzoo at least in GR CSA? no, it's 40 minutes of rural towns that completely separate the 2 cities.

If there weren't 40 minutes of cornfields between the 2 cities or at least the east suburbs of GR stretch more than halfway to Lansing.
If this is your only criteria, Boston is part of Washington DC...

However, that's the wrong definition. Under most definitions, Ann Arbor IS NOT in Metro Detroit. Detroit urban area is parts of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb counties. Metro Detroit MSA covers those 3 plus Livingston, St Clair, and Lapeer counties. Southeast Michigan CSA includes those counties and Genessee, Monroe, and Washtenaw counties. Detroit-Windsor area includes those counties plus Essex, Lambton, and Kent counties Ontario. The Great Lakes megalopolis stretches from Buffalo to St Louis.

MSA's are centered on employment centers. That's why Ann Arbor is it's own MSA, NOT in Metro Detroit. Most people in the Ann Arbor area work in Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor MSA is the entirety of Washtenaw county.

A CSA is a set of linked MSA that share economic and social ties. Detroit-Flint-Ann Arbor CSA combines Metro Detroit, Flint MSA, Ann Arbor MSA, Monroe MSA, and Adrian MSA.
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Old 08-01-2017, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Louisville
4,289 posts, read 4,053,736 times
Reputation: 7258
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio516 View Post

MSA's are centered on employment centers. That's why Ann Arbor is it's own MSA, NOT in Metro Detroit. Most people in the Ann Arbor area work in Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor MSA is the entirety of Washtenaw county.
MSA's are based on county commuting patterns into core counties which by default are employment centers. They are NOT based on employment centers alone as often you will find multiple employment centers within one MSA. In order for a county to be added to a core metro at least 25% of it's workforce needs to commute into the core county. Ann Arbor is in Detroit's CSA which means between 15%-25% of it's workforce commutes into Wayne. To this point the economic pull of the University of Michigan has been enough to keep it as a statistically independent MSA, but still part of the Metro D CSA. However the number commuters into Metro Detroit has been steadily rising as eastern Washtenaw County gets built out.

As that commuting percentage continues to grow there's a very real possibility that by the 2023 metro realignment the Ann Arbor MSA will cease to exist, and be absorbed into the Detroit MSA where it belongs. Ann Arbor will still be an employment center, but it won't be it's own MSA.

Last edited by mjlo; 08-01-2017 at 07:57 AM..
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
28,418 posts, read 67,531,154 times
Reputation: 34288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
Michigan has 276 cities. It is hard to pick a best.... I've included a some reasons a few of them are great.
You left out the Townships.

Many of the townships are bigger and have more going on than a lot of the listed Cities. Really need to include the Townships.

The argument over whether Ann Arbor is its own metro area has been going on for decades and can be found ad nauseum in these discussion panels. The same endless argument goes on whether Orange County CA is part of the LA metro. Whether Burlingame is part of San Francisco metro (or Oakland). Whether Denton is part of the Dallas metro (there are better examples for Dallas, Denton is the only one I can remember). I have always viewed Ann Arbor as part of the Detroit Metro area and likely always will. But K'zoo and Grand Rapids are clearly distinct and unrelated in my mind. Not sure where Battle Creek fits in. And just to include the yoopers in this discussion, is Munising part of the Marquette metropolitan area?
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Old 08-01-2017, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,832 posts, read 5,648,719 times
Reputation: 5302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
You left out the Townships.

Many of the townships are bigger and have more going on than a lot of the listed Cities. Really need to include the Townships.

The argument over whether Ann Arbor is its own metro area has been going on for decades and can be found ad nauseum in these discussion panels. The same endless argument goes on whether Orange County CA is part of the LA metro. Whether Burlingame is part of San Francisco metro (or Oakland). Whether Denton is part of the Dallas metro (there are better examples for Dallas, Denton is the only one I can remember). I have always viewed Ann Arbor as part of the Detroit Metro area and likely always will. But K'zoo and Grand Rapids are clearly distinct and unrelated in my mind. Not sure where Battle Creek fits in. And just to include the yoopers in this discussion, is Munising part of the Marquette metropolitan area?
OP inquired about cities. Including the 1,240 townships would just make it overwhelming. As would the 257 villages.

I admit- it leaves a lot of fun, unexplored territory in the wind. You eliminate the cool names like Hell and Christmas (Who doesn't want to say they live in Hell or Christmas?!) You lose gems like Oscoda that offer you not only Lumberman's Monument with which to kill your self with, but it also has a giant Paul Bunyon and a whole Paul Bunyon festival. And then another giant Paul Bunyon nearby with Babe. What is not to love? But, alas, Oscoda is not a city.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,885 posts, read 18,040,438 times
Reputation: 3882
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
OP inquired about cities. Including the 1,240 townships would just make it overwhelming. As would the 257 villages.

I admit- it leaves a lot of fun, unexplored territory in the wind. You eliminate the cool names like Hell and Christmas (Who doesn't want to say they live in Hell or Christmas?!) You lose gems like Oscoda that offer you not only Lumberman's Monument with which to kill your self with, but it also has a giant Paul Bunyon and a whole Paul Bunyon festival. And then another giant Paul Bunyon nearby with Babe. What is not to love? But, alas, Oscoda is not a city.
I could not have said it better myself.

Or what about Mackinac Island? I don't even know, is it a town, village, township, burg, hamlet?
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,832 posts, read 5,648,719 times
Reputation: 5302
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
I could not have said it better myself.

Or what about Mackinac Island? I don't even know, is it a town, village, township, burg, hamlet?
It is a city! I was surprised. Mackinaw City is not a city though. It is a village. But, the Village of Clarkston is a city. We sure do it right here in Michigan
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,929,436 times
Reputation: 2639
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio516 View Post
If this is your only criteria, Boston is part of Washington DC...

However, that's the wrong definition. Under most definitions, Ann Arbor IS NOT in Metro Detroit. Detroit urban area is parts of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb counties. Metro Detroit MSA covers those 3 plus Livingston, St Clair, and Lapeer counties. Southeast Michigan CSA includes those counties and Genessee, Monroe, and Washtenaw counties. Detroit-Windsor area includes those counties plus Essex, Lambton, and Kent counties Ontario. The Great Lakes megalopolis stretches from Buffalo to St Louis.

MSA's are centered on employment centers. That's why Ann Arbor is it's own MSA, NOT in Metro Detroit. Most people in the Ann Arbor area work in Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor MSA is the entirety of Washtenaw county.

A CSA is a set of linked MSA that share economic and social ties. Detroit-Flint-Ann Arbor CSA combines Metro Detroit, Flint MSA, Ann Arbor MSA, Monroe MSA, and Adrian MSA.
Lol no it's not... there are tons of rural areas between Boston and DC. And now that you mentioned urban areas, here's a map:


See how they are connected other then the greenbelt? it's alot different then Detroit and Toledo or Flint or Port Huron (which ironically is part of Detroit's MSA). And you just said yourself that Ann Arbor/Ypsi is part of the Detroit CSA which means quite a few people live/ work/ play between the two counties. Belleville and Canton is unquestionably a suburb of Detroit yet it's right across the street from Ypsilanti. That would be the equivalent of Kzoo/ Portage being right across the street from Kentwood or Cutlerville. Show me a continuous urban area from Buffalo to STL that looks anywhere even close to that.

Which is why in my OP I said I will just lump Ann Arbor/ Ypsi with Metro Detroit in this instance, because they can enjoy the amenities of Metro Detroit just as easily as people who live in most far out suburbs and vice versa especially for people in the west burbs, they can enjoy the amenities of Ann Arbor/ Ypsi just as easy (if not easier) as they can enjoy the east or northside of the metro area. By your logic, is Windsor also not part of the Detroit area despite being only a few miles from downtown Detroit? if someone lives in Windsor and assuming they can get into the US, should they ignore the amenities of the region only a couple of miles from them because of some commuting patterns? Actually, Windsor and Ann Arbor have better access to Metro Detroit amenities than people in Livingston and St. Clair counties do, despite Livingston and St. Clair counties being part of Metro Detroit. See how commuting patterns doesn't tell a whole story?

Quote:
The argument over whether Ann Arbor is its own metro area has been going on for decades and can be found ad nauseum in these discussion panels. The same endless argument goes on whether Orange County CA is part of the LA metro. Whether Burlingame is part of San Francisco metro (or Oakland). Whether Denton is part of the Dallas metro (there are better examples for Dallas, Denton is the only one I can remember). I have always viewed Ann Arbor as part of the Detroit Metro area and likely always will. But K'zoo and Grand Rapids are clearly distinct and unrelated in my mind. Not sure where Battle Creek fits in. And just to include the yoopers in this discussion, is Munising part of the Marquette metropolitan area?
Basically. For the OP sake, I'm lumping them together. This would basically be like people trying to say SF and San Jose aren't both in the bay area and are basically two separate regions, they are without a doubt the same region, same with LA and OC. Which is why MSA isn't the end all be all measurement.

Last edited by MS313; 08-02-2017 at 12:28 AM..
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Great Lakes Region
108 posts, read 76,785 times
Reputation: 105
I'd go with Grand Rapids; lots of activities, the economy is getting better, and a good central location for easy travel to other cities.
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,929,436 times
Reputation: 2639
I forgot to tell u OP idk what your career path is but you should find the best job for the career you want first and then come back and ask us about the amenities that are in close proximity to that job. Michigan is a big state so it will be easier to weigh your pros and cons after you already have an idea of where you might be working.
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,114 posts, read 2,652,490 times
Reputation: 2413
I thought the correct answer to this question was Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Traverse City. Maybe Marquette.
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