Do you support changing michigan to a "Right to Work" state? (job)

[deslok]

Paddington that was the funniest post I have read in a while. Well observed.
Meanwhile while everyone in Michigan argues, more people leave and become bored with the constant blue-collar bickering.

[Jara]

I Owe My Soul to the Company Store....

I hope that Michigan continues to be a non-right-to-work state. I worked in a union shop and AFL-CIO was our union. We didn't of course make the wages UAW made, but we weren't building cars either. Our lives were good. Full paid health insurance you didn't pay a cent for. Credit union we could join. We didn't strike at the drop of a pin, but we had union attorneys that represented us at the bargaining table. We knew part of our union dues were for their salaries. We were not (slackers) because we had pride in what we did.Most of all we had plans and dreams that came true.

[joey71]

Originally Posted by Paddington

Do you know why Wal Mart is the world's first or second biggest company, and by far the biggest retailer? It's because they don't have union scum going on strike every week. They tell their workers to do it, and the workers will do it. You tell some union turd to do something, they'll go whine to their union boss about it, strike, come back after a week, and begrudgingly do it but sabotage it in the process. I shop at Walmart all the time just to give a big **** YOU to the local unions.

Ummm yeah --- how about anger management.
Great go to work for a corporation who pays min wage and then fires you for coming in 1 min. late-- union or non, that is complete BS--

Please frequent wal-mart because they are built by UNION TRADESMAN!! Thank you Paddington for your support of the union.

After 15 years of being in the building trades and a proud member of the union, NEVER HAD A STRIKE!!!!
Not one union boss to whine to about building those walls, or hanging out of a 15 story building, swinging a 15 lb sledge, or installing the doors and door hardware in the hospital or school that your child attends!!!
That my friends is awesome and most people would love to have a job like that!! I have it because I busted my A@@ to do it and to learn it and the union has trained me to do quality and efficient work -- right to work would allow some moron to come into the state from arkansas hire 15 hispanics to do all the work and he will reap all the benefits and the taxpayers will pay the same price for the labor.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Jara

I Owe My Soul to the Company Store....

I hope that Michigan continues to be a non-right-to-work state. I worked in a union shop and AFL-CIO was our union. We didn't of course make the wages UAW made, but we weren't building cars either. Our lives were good. Full paid health insurance you didn't pay a cent for. Credit union we could join. We didn't strike at the drop of a pin, but we had union attorneys that represented us at the bargaining table. We knew part of our union dues were for their salaries. We were not (slackers) because we had pride in what we did.Most of all we had plans and dreams that came true.

"Worked" might be the key word here. Unions are thing of the past because too many shops are closed now, and businesses starting up will simply select a non-union state.

As far as Democrats and Republicans, it was Bill Clinton who signed NAFTA and he and Hillary made plenty of trips to China to send our jobs there, as well as George H. Bush. Both parties are for the big global corporations.

Now with gas prices headed to who knows what, how can we tell where things are going. Can a striking union shop really produce what we need for the future?

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by joey71

Ummm yeah --- how about anger management.

LOL, my thoughts exactly!

right to work would allow some moron to come into the state from arkansas hire 15 hispanics to do all the work and he will reap all the benefits and the taxpayers will pay the same price for the labor.

Actually "Right to work" state or not, there is nothing stopping somebody from doing this now. Right-to-work has nothing to do with what types of contractors there are out there. Anybody is free to hire union or non-union shops and contractors right now as they please. Most Wal-Marts are built using union labor that is correct, not all are though.

I have worked with some great non-union shops as well as some great union shops and people. There is pride in craftsmanship in all sectors of the trades that runs across the union/non-union line and that is something I am most proud of when I go to work. Most of us do what we do because we really do like it, some go the union way, others do not. Nothing wrong with either method, just different ways to get the same thing accomplished really. I will never tell a union worker they are wrong for belonging to one or more unions, that is their choice, just as don't expect a union worker to tell me I am wrong for choosing the non-union workplace. We can discuss the benefits of both sides, but neither is really wrong, just a personal choice.

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Let's look at some of the article that was posted in an Alabama thread regarding their possibility of getting another auto assembly plant from the Birmingham News:


"We're honored to have been included as a finalist," said Neal Wade, director of the Alabama Development Office. He declined to say more, citing a policy of not talking about active projects.

Wade has previously said that Alabama would welcome a chance to compete for the Volkswagen project, the latest in a long line of automotive prospects for the state.

Since Mercedes-Benz, another German automaker, picked the state for its U.S. assembly site in 1993, Honda and Hyundai have built similar vehicle assembly plants, Toyota moved in with an engine assembly plant and a host of suppliers followed.

Hefty incentive packages, along with lower operating costs and minimal union activity, have helped draw automakers to Alabama and other Southern states instead of the country's historical center of vehicle production in Michigan.

Last year, Volkswagen announced plans to move its U.S. headquarters from Auburn Hills, Mich., near Detroit, to Herndon, Va., near Washington. "

The Alabama auto industry employs 134,000 people with a payroll of $5.2 billion dollars.

Take special note of the last paragraph in the news article. It looks like we do not need to try and attract other industries until we address our structural problems.

[mkfarnam]

Right to Work is just another name for "Guest worker" program,for Illegal.
It didn't work. The illegals stayed illegal just to work illegally.

Tell me this...if Michigan's unemployment rate is so bad..why is the Government trying to invite illegals (and that's exactly what it's about) to do the work instead of the willing unemployed of their own state.
(that's exactly what happened in Ca.) But there's more lazy people in Ca. than is in Mi.

What will happen is.........illegals will move to Michigan to do construction jobs (That Americans CANdo). but then in no time they'll drop construction and start taking over jobs that alot of you already depend on.
(Retail,grociery stores, mini markets, lawn sevices, factory, mechanical, and more...)
I lived in Ca. and visually watched to happen. Michigan's unemployment rate is bad enough, this will only make it worse.
It's not meant to help the people, only the rich Big Box stores and Corrupt Politicians. Some of it may sound beneficial but it's not.
Don't forget.. your kid's and Grand Kids will have to face this.

I wrote a "somewhat polite" but stern letter to Governor Granholm about her inviting Illegals to Michigans to work the farms.
That made "Headlines" out in Southern California.

Michigan has a big enough Immigration problem, don't turn it into California.

[larkim]

Its actually funny the union bashing going on blaming Michigans economy on them. Michigans wonderful leadership, allowing itself to become dependent on the auto industry was the first mistake. Mistake two was the signing of the fair trade agreement where this country losts hundreds of thousands of jobs. Michigan lost union and non union jobs to first Mexico, then China. It was funny to see the Mexican workers complaining about losing jobs to China because they save American manufacturers more money. As far as this state being a right to work state, I wouldn't vote for it, but if it was passed I don't think it would hurt the state anymore. Now I will say that the unions have helped non union workers in this country by fighting for safer working conditions, and better standards of living. Ok now I was a involved in trying to get a union in a business in Shiawassee county and management suddenly made changes, and started promising everyone the world if they voted it down. It was voted down and management was worse then ever. A year later a union was voted in and everything improved, including pay. I had left by this time and moved to a big three job. Back then it was great 1976 you got good pay, the work was easy. Well as the Michigan economy got worse the unions had to give to keep jobs here. My plant went from 6,500 people to 1,500 people, the easy jobs were now bust your ass for 8-10 hours. The unions seem to help the people that get in trouble the most. Unions aren't like they were 30 years ago, they had to change. Now on a closing note, look around your home.... take a good look ..... how much stuff that you have is made in America? Are you helping America? Or are you investing in China?

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Originally Posted by larkim

Its actually funny the union bashing going on blaming Michigans economy on them. Michigans wonderful leadership, allowing itself to become dependent on the auto industry was the first mistake. Mistake two was the signing of the fair trade agreement where this country losts hundreds of thousands of jobs.

A few points. I agree that union bashing is not relevant to the topic. People should have the right to choose to join a union just as one of the earlier posters said that people are free to join the Chamber of Commerce. However, just being a member of a group should not per se give anyone an advantage over any competing group. Each must strive to remain relevant.

As far as Michigan's leadership, I do not see where they are the ones who allow Michigan to become dependent on one industry or another. They should simply set up a climate which encourages people to want to set up and move buasinesses to Michigan. One of the few ways that states have to encourage businesses to start are tax incentives - and most people are not too keen about giving those out. So I'm not sure how much blame the state has for becoming dependent on the auto industry.

Lastly, the fair trade agreement. You imply that Michigan signed the agreement. Michigan had nothing to do with it. All states play by those rules. But some seem to play better than others. Note the earlier post on Alabama in the running to get yet another auto plant. That has nothing to do with the fair trade agreement.

[scottmi]

Unions are a horrible idea.

I'm sure there are some hard-working people in unions out there but the mere fact that unions have such a bad reputation means that the quality of work VS. how much they are paid is not balanced properly by the employer.

Also, my Dad worked in the construction/HVAC/etc. trades for 3 decades here in Michigan and he said many times that if he had stayed downstate near Detroit, he'd probably have been in with a union at somepoint in his career. Where he lived in upper lower Michigan however, unions simply didn't exist in his field.

So unless you can ensure everyone can be part of a union at any job at all times I don't think you should even have them.

Unions only benefit a small minority of workers yet the costs involved in supporting their wages and benefits affect a much larger number of non-union people.



By the way - someone early on in this thread said if unions disappeared we might have to lower our standards to China's or something to that affect.


Anyone ever think that maybe Americans have gotten too pampered and think they deserve mor ethan they're actually worth??? Hmmmm????