Three Main Problems in Michigan.... (Detroit, Portland: environment, real estate, upkeep)

[Cliffie]

Coldjensen's "attitude" is a great one. But another huge one is the brain drain of talented people -- bankers, doctors, entrpreneurs -- pouring over the state line, like lemmings to the sea.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

Meow.

I've started one successful construction business that employs up to 10 people (depending on the season). Sorry if that's not enough for you. I'm only 30.

Never run into any major regulation problems. A little city bureaucracy on specific construction projects - but that was more due to blind egos than any rational regulatory needs.

The creative class is the future of our economy...

I just saw that grade on TV a couple weeks ago. Not sure the source or criteria. It was some formal organization, though.

Best of luck to you.

I just wonder why you'd advance an opinion about how regulation effects business start-ups... particularly when you're not burdened with them. I have no opinion myself on the issue of wet-lands protection. However, being that the straw that made me decide to leave MI was that I was switched from annual sales-tax reporting to quarterly makes me suspect that what seems a minor regulation to those not burdened with it, might be quite significant in the eyes of the business owner... particularly since the headaches are cumulative.

I've seen the creative class in Portland, OR. It's a farce from what I can tell. It's like the internet bubble... at some point, you have to deliver a product... From what I've seen, the "creative class" is only creating hot air. That's just been my impression.

Anyway, for what it's worth, wiki laid it quite bare in that article that the theory is questionable and risky.


From what I've seen, I wouldn't put too much faith in questionably sourced grades. On a scale of 1-10, I'm definitely an 11... but my woman might say otherwise...

Originally Posted by Cliffie

Coldjensen's "attitude" is a great one. But another huge one is the brain drain of talented people -- bankers, doctors, entrpreneurs -- pouring over the state line, like lemmings to the sea.

I think they're running from the attitude.

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

I just wonder why you'd advance an opinion about how regulation effects business start-ups... particularly when you're not burdened with them. I have no opinion myself on the issue of wet-lands protection. However, being that the straw that made me decide to leave MI was that I was switched from annual sales-tax reporting to quarterly makes me suspect that what seems a minor regulation to those not burdened with it, might be quite significant in the eyes of the business owner... particularly since the headaches are cumulative.

I've seen the creative class in Portland, OR. It's a farce from what I can tell. It's like the internet bubble... at some point, you have to deliver a product... From what I've seen, the "creative class" is only creating hot air. That's just been my impression.

Anyway, for what it's worth, wiki laid it quite bare in that article that the theory is questionable and risky.


From what I've seen, I wouldn't put too much faith in questionably sourced grades. On a scale of 1-10, I'm definitely an 11... but my woman might say otherwise...
.

I don't put much faith in them. I was just surprised when I saw it flash across the news, that's all.The problem with creating a product is that manufacturing has left the U.S. and is not coming back. A basic understanding of capitalism demonstrates that it functions like water, seeking the lowest denominator. That was Europe in the 19th/early 20th century, the U.S. in the mid 20th century, and Asia today. Perhaps the Middle East will be next as it is becoming far more business savvy.So, what products can we create? Pittsburgh has turned itself around into a service economy. Much of that is the creative class - which constitute architects, engineers, writers, policy makers... I just don't see how we can ever go back.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

I don't put much faith in them. I was just surprised when I saw it flash across the news, that's all.The problem with creating a product is that manufacturing has left the U.S. and is not coming back. A basic understanding of capitalism demonstrates that it functions like water, seeking the lowest denominator. That was Europe in the 19th/early 20th century, the U.S. in the mid 20th century, and Asia today. Perhaps the Middle East will be next as it is becoming far more business savvy.So, what products can we create? Pittsburgh has turned itself around into a service economy. Much of that is the creative class - which constitute architects, engineers, writers, policy makers... I just don't see how we can ever go back.

Capitalism, I believe Smith would say, seeks the most efficient method relative to human nature. Is that the LCD? I don't think so because calling it "low" implies something bad, whereas, I believe, "most mutually beneficial" would be more accurate.

The idea of "manufacturing coming back" is kind of a misnomer. It doesn't come or go. It either lives or dies. The culture of America became so corrupt-- made the relationship unbeneficial for one side-- that manufacturing just died... It didn't move. America killed it here. (It's a nuance, but terribly significant, I believe, to the continued failure of America to compete.)

I think something that nourishes the belief of a manufacturing base continuing to be absent from the American scene is the widespread tendency to take for granted that the whole of companies like GM have to come in and drop a many-acre plant on a location... It's part of our brand-culture and something of a misunderstanding and trust in the individual.

As transportation gets more and more expensive, America will return to manufacturing as part of the economic landscape... because the cost of transportation will demand more than the cost of labor... and all the entitlements America demands with the hourly wage...

[JoeNottage]

I must say that I am guilty of being negative towards this state. I am a resident in the village of Kingsley, MI just south of Traverse City. I am trying to turn around my attitude and I am going to college to learn a new trade. I want to be a part of Michigan.

[MIhome]

Michigan's problem is people who are afraid of change and choice.It is understandable,when you become sufficient on one thing,and it goes away,you really are at a loss of where the next thing will come from,will it be good or bad,both the change and choice,one will always lead to the other.

[kcam213]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

...
As transportation gets more and more expensive, America will return to manufacturing as part of the economic landscape... because the cost of transportation will demand more than the cost of labor... and all the entitlements America demands with the hourly wage...

This is an interesting theory, one I never considered. Also these "3rd world countries" are advancing, and slowly their wages are increasing due to globalization... there may come a time when it is not so cost effective for US companies to outsource to foreign countries... I have heard Mexico workers are now demanding an increase in wages. These countries are on the same path of US, just 50 - 75 years behind.

I think eventually, a move for workers to unite and demand better wages, and working condition will happen... in other words UNIONIZATION!

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by kcam213

This is an interesting theory, one I never considered...

Of course you haven't considered it. You've been betrayed by the public education system that probably never mentioned Adam Smith, author "The Wealth of Nations," but you heard all about how FDR did you a favor by legislating socialism.

Smith gives all the answer in one of the most beautiful works man has known, but 90% of the nation hasn't heard of it... much less read it... and teachers deserve more money?

This is why, at the root, the problem is cultural. Americans don't know how to think about business.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by pistonsfan70

I'm doing a paper, as stated in another thread, and I've crossed off real estate as a problem in Michigan. I've already written two main points about the government problems (misspending, Kwame, Granholm) and the decline in the auto industry, due to outsourcing and various other reasons. I need a strong third main point. Any ideas would be great!

Thanks

I think government and hard-to-get jobs are the two big problems. Otherwise people would be moving in good numbers to Michigan and most people would be staying.

There's one other big reason many people leave and that's the long winters. Even with a good economy, there are going to be people who just don't like the weather and the costs of heating, although there are many who prefer to stay because they like the weather there.

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Capitalism, I believe Smith would say, seeks the most efficient method relative to human nature. Is that the LCD? I don't think so because calling it "low" implies something bad, whereas, I believe, "most mutually beneficial" would be more accurate.

The idea of "manufacturing coming back" is kind of a misnomer. It doesn't come or go. It either lives or dies. The culture of America became so corrupt-- made the relationship unbeneficial for one side-- that manufacturing just died... It didn't move. America killed it here. (It's a nuance, but terribly significant, I believe, to the continued failure of America to compete.)

I think something that nourishes the belief of a manufacturing base continuing to be absent from the American scene is the widespread tendency to take for granted that the whole of companies like GM have to come in and drop a many-acre plant on a location... It's part of our brand-culture and something of a misunderstanding and trust in the individual.

As transportation gets more and more expensive, America will return to manufacturing as part of the economic landscape... because the cost of transportation will demand more than the cost of labor... and all the entitlements America demands with the hourly wage...

Capitalism, at its most efficient, does seek the most product for the cheapest cost. Thus, the lowest common denominator. If you want to label that with a value, so be it.

Manufacturing does come and go. It came and it went - not because of corruption, but because the workers demanded higher quality of life and began caring about things beyond their paychecks - health care, conservation, safe working conditions.

If corruption were the culprit, then wouldn't all the of the corrupt third world regimes taking in our manufacturing for one or two dollars a day per worker be collapsing rather than rising?

Perhaps our greatest hope here is that new technologies can emerge out of creativity and entrepreneurial spirit (both being crushed by standardization of education) and, before it becomes too expensive, can get started here. Maybe your transportation theory could come into play in such a scenario.