[scolls]

Originally Posted by Bydand

It seems you are under the impression that higher taxes mean better schools. Are you really that naive? A Bachelors in Business admin? Hate to break the bad news to you, but as you are finding out, a BS doesn't go far anymore in that field. Hasn't really meant much in the last 15 or 20 years to tell the truth, it is a field that is glutted with people.

Again with the rest of the area and not Gaylord. Your Mothers went to Otsego once and had a bad experience. Sorry to say, that happens ANYPLACE even your vaulted Munson. Overall Otsego is a good hospital, a small hospital sure, but a good one. Like any small place though the more unusual or complicated the case the more prudent it is to ship to a larger facility. That isn't Northern Michigan, but ANY rural hospital across the country.

Did I say there was no problems in Gaylord? No, I didn't say nor imply that at all. There are problems with drugs and alcohol EVERYWHERE. Where are the higher paying jobs? They are everywhere, but like I said before, you have to either already have the skills, or be willing to obtain the skills needed to do them. A chushy job and high pay doesn't fall into your lap, or is given to the slipshod, you have to go after them and get the training to do them. A bit more research is needed now before choosing a university major because the old days are gone where you could get a paper in anything and go find a great paying job.

Do you even live or have lived in northern Michigan? Now that you are attacking my degree choice, I did land a job and that is why I am in the Detroit area and not up north. When my 12 weeks of training are done, I can be assigned to either metro Detroit, Grand Rapids, or Chicago. There are no companies up there that pay any decent wages. What large company is based in northern Michigan? <insert lame argument I lack talent here instead of really adding anything relevant> About 80% of my graduating class has left northern Michigan. The region is poor. Lots of people are below the poverty line, on medicaid or medicare, food stamps, WIC, and live in government housing. Only on the coasts do people have money. The middle class up north are people like my father who is retired from Ford's. You have your professionals like doctors, lawyers etc. who make less money up north than they would in the city. How many family owned businesses do you know that pay decent wages? Who in Gaylord is going to pay decent wages? Walmart? Kmart? Lowes? It's all service insudtry up there.

[Bydand]

I graduated from the SOO, I lived and worked in Gaylord for many years as well. Both brothers graduated High School from there in fact. So I am well acquainted with living in Northern Michigan.

I was not attacking your career choice, just making a comment on how glutted that field is. I know I have that same degree. I worked for a small private owned Mom and Pop place in Gaylord and made great money. There was the owner, his son, myself and two other guys who worked together, we all made money. I moved away because I was young and single and wanted to see the Country a bit more than I already had.

[scolls]

Originally Posted by Bydand

I graduated from the SOO, I lived and worked in Gaylord for many years as well. Both brothers graduated High School from there in fact. So I am well acquainted with living in Northern Michigan.

I was not attacking your career choice, just making a comment on how glutted that field is. I know I have that same degree. I worked for a small private owned Mom and Pop place in Gaylord and made great money. There was the owner, his son, myself and two other guys who worked together, we all made money. I moved away because I was young and single and wanted to see the Country a bit more than I already had.

I highly doubt any of those mom and pop stores can make enough to provide a middle class lifestyle. If it were possible, why is Gaylord among the lowest in median income and highest in unemployment? Most males work in construction and food service. In fact, these mom and pop places change all the time. Walmart has successfully destroyed the downtowns in West Branch and Gaylord. Houghton Lake never had one to begin with. You seem to be all over. Didn't I just read you went to college in Detroit? Then you went to the Soo worked in Gaylord, worked in Detroit, now are in west Michigan? Quite the traveler.

[Bydand]

No, get it right. I graduated High School in the Soo, went to college in Detroit, moved to Gaylord, then went back to Detroit to work on my own. In the time between Gaylord and West Michigan I spent many years in Maine as well as Battle Creek, MI and Cadillac, MI. And yes I do travel a lot. When you get a bit older you may appreciate getting out of your own little bubble of comfort and seeing this great State and Country yourself. I have been to and spent time in 47 States, and 53% of the counties in this Country, as well as most of the Canadian Provinces. It gives one a broader sense of the world, something you are showing you lack yet.

What makes you think it was a Mom and Pop store? I didn't say that at all. I said a small Mom and Pop place, not a store front. We did make money, very good money. They are still there and providing a good living for 6 or 7 guys right now. I am NOT going to post the Name of the business on a general website either.

I really tire of your childish arguments and dragging the thread off topic so I am not going to respond to any more foolishness. You have proven yourself as one who is bitter and narrow minded about Northern Michigan.

[michiganmom2008]

*S* I will fit in great with the people in Gaylord then if they are all broke...Im broke too but would rather be up there then where I am now!

[scolls]

Originally Posted by Bydand

No, get it right. I graduated High School in the Soo, went to college in Detroit, moved to Gaylord, then went back to Detroit to work on my own. In the time between Gaylord and West Michigan I spent many years in Maine as well as Battle Creek, MI and Cadillac, MI. And yes I do travel a lot. When you get a bit older you may appreciate getting out of your own little bubble of comfort and seeing this great State and Country yourself. I have been to and spent time in 47 States, and 53% of the counties in this Country, as well as most of the Canadian Provinces. It gives one a broader sense of the world, something you are showing you lack yet.

What makes you think it was a Mom and Pop store? I didn't say that at all. I said a small Mom and Pop place, not a store front. We did make money, very good money. They are still there and providing a good living for 6 or 7 guys right now. I am NOT going to post the Name of the business on a general website either.

I really tire of your childish arguments and dragging the thread off topic so I am not going to respond to any more foolishness. You have proven yourself as one who is bitter and narrow minded about Northern Michigan.

So? I lived in Detroit, Roscommon, Orlando, and the Twin Cities. Speaking of seeing the country, I have been as far west as California, and as far east as New York. What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't change the fact Northern Michigan has the highest unemployment in the country, some of the highest poverty levels, lowest median income, and crime rates above the national average. Maybe they are just not as skilled as you? Gaylord has higher crime rates than Warren, Center Line, Eastpointe, St. Clair Shores, Sterling Heights, Troy, Royal Oak, Clinton Township, Utica and so on and so forth. Gotta love the paltry 84 to 1 ratio of sex offenders to population. Detroit has a 500 to 1. 3600 people in Gaylord and over 30 sex offenders. Harper Woods has 17 and a population of 13,000. At least I know 6 to 7 people of the 3600 can make a decent living.

[Bydand]

You must not have learned much in college. If you are going to present items as facts you need proof. Lets look at some of your false statements shall we, then look at the actual numbers.

Originally Posted by scolls

It doesn't change the fact Northern Michigan has the highest unemployment in the country,

That one I will give you as getting right.

some of the highest poverty levels,

Nope. Here is the newest chart by county of poverty levels in the US from the Census Bureau: As you can see there are plenty of Counties out there that are lower. Northern Michigan does NOT have the highest poverty levels in the Country. In fact go to (State and County Data - Census Bureau) and look back at past years, we are getting further AWAY from poverty in Michigan county by county.

lowest median income,

There are plenty of states that have lower household income levels than Northern Michigan. LA for example has 16 counties that are lower than our lowest level. MS has 33 counties lower, AL 13 lower, TX 32 lower, NC 6 lower, etc.... In fact since we are talking Otsego County here, more specifically Gaylord you should note that Otsego County sits at #26 for household income in Michigan out of 84 Counties. Hardly the lowest you are trying to make it out to be.
ERS/USDA Data - County-Level Unemployment and Median Household Income

crime rates above the national average

.
Are you serious? By definition 1/2 the counties and/or cities in the US are above the US average. Just because we have some shouldn't come as a shock to anybody. For every city you can pick downstate that has a lower crime rate than Gaylord, you can also find one with a higher crime rate. That is the nature of the beast.

[GraniteStater]

This data was updated last month:
Michigan QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

[michiganmom2008]

My goodness guys!! Your really getting into this.

[JGatti]

Originally Posted by scolls

So? I lived in Detroit, Roscommon, Orlando, and the Twin Cities. Speaking of seeing the country, I have been as far west as California, and as far east as New York. What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't change the fact Northern Michigan has the highest unemployment in the country, some of the highest poverty levels, lowest median income, and crime rates above the national average. Maybe they are just not as skilled as you? Gaylord has higher crime rates than Warren, Center Line, Eastpointe, St. Clair Shores, Sterling Heights, Troy, Royal Oak, Clinton Township, Utica and so on and so forth. Gotta love the paltry 84 to 1 ratio of sex offenders to population. Detroit has a 500 to 1. 3600 people in Gaylord and over 30 sex offenders. Harper Woods has 17 and a population of 13,000. At least I know 6 to 7 people of the 3600 can make a decent living.

I'd be willing to bet almost every one of the so called sex offenders in Gaylord are kids who got caught with their girlfriend and the result of some pissed off parents. There are so many things you can do to be put on the sex offender list it is really kind of stupid. If I had a choice I pick Gaylord sex offenders over Harper Woods. My guess they or most of them are TRUE sex offenders. Rapists/child molesters etc.
The crime statistic is misleading as well. Before you start spouting off about how crime ridden Gaylord is compared to Royal Oak, Troy and other big cities. Have a look at the violent crimes committed. Murders, rapes, beatings etc. When you have so many homes vacant year around those area's are more prone to theft, and vandalism. Guess what? Majority of it comes from people from the cities you listed that travel up there. For how educated you claim to be your post is sure filled with some stupid statistics and information.

I just did a quick search. Gaylord has had 1 murder in the last 7 years. Harper Woods 5. Gaylord 26 rapes in the last 7 years. Harper Woods 37. Robberies Gaylord 5 in the last 7 years. Harper woods 329. How you ever thought to include Warren of all cities on here is mind boggling.

Warren in the last 7 years-

Murders- 39
Rapes-441
Robberies-1474
Assaults-3,801

I'd raise my family in Gaylord and let them play outside any time of day long before I would live or let em roam in ANY of the cities you listed. The crime rating hurt the smaller cities no doubt. But be honest.... no THINK! Do you honestly think your safer in any of the mentioned cities than you are in Gaylord? Give me a break.