[joenc]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

After CA, MI probably has the best public university system - yes, better than VA.

Michigan State and Michigan are great schools, but the second and third tier are poor. I mean, Central Michigan or Ferris State? 20,000 students in a diploma mill. Of the second tier, I'd say only Western Michigan is respectable.

Michigan also has no research-level private schools.

A valid comparison can be done of the top schools in each state. When comparing Michigan to two southern states, it looks like this:

Virginia
UVA >= UM
VT == MSU

North Carolina
UNC == UM (a slight edge to Michigan)
NCSU == MSU (NCSU wins, in a landslide, in a comparison of engineering programs).

Duke > UM (Duke is private, I know, but its impact is huge.)

NC has the advantage of having its three best schools in the same metropolitan area. Synergy. The Ann Arbor region has the University of Michigan and Eastern Michigan. University of Michigan carries the load there. Michigan State is in a dead manufacturing town; Raleigh-Durham is one of the top three centers for bioscience and high technology.

I only mention all of this to show the supposed advantage is not as large as some may think, and will shrink as the stupid politicians make the hard choices to cut education funding.

Solution: Michigan should cut the fat schools, and divert resources to the primary institutions. A bunch of poorly-educated people with college degrees doesn't create any long-term competitive advantage.

It's not all negative, but undeserved congratulation isn't appropriate. Reality must be looked square in the eye if Michigan is going to escape its decline.

[The_Anonymous_American]

There is no way that Virginia or North Carolina State can be put ahead of Michigan or Michigan State. You are also missing the importance of the mission statement of both Michigan and Michigan State, and why college rankings are way off the mark. Michigan and MSU are almost double the size of North Carolina and the top half of the students at MSU, never mind at Michigan, could easily compete with the student body at North Carolina. The top 25 % at MSU, not to mention Michigan, can easily compete with the student body at Duke. But Michigan and MSU have a mandate to educate the public, not just inflate their ranking.
While Flint is routinely abused by critics on this board, it is also home to Kettering, one of the elite engineering schools in the country. Kettering is far superior academically than most Sunbelt engineering programs. Yes, Flint has the typical inner city problems in health as well as economics. The suburbs around Flint (Grand Blanc, Flushing, Fenton, etc) are actually quite nice. The Flint area has the largest junior golf league in the country and the ten mile road race in Flint (The Crim) is one of Runner World's "Coolest Races" in the country. So if the state of Michigan was a stock, I wouldn't yet rate it a "buy," but it is getting there.

[ringgold]

GO BLUE! best football program in college history.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by joenc

Michigan State and Michigan are great schools, but the second and third tier are poor. I mean, Central Michigan or Ferris State? 20,000 students in a diploma mill. Of the second tier, I'd say only Western Michigan is respectable.

Michigan also has no research-level private schools.

A valid comparison can be done of the top schools in each state. When comparing Michigan to two southern states, it looks like this:

Virginia
UVA >= UM
VT == MSU

North Carolina
UNC == UM (a slight edge to Michigan)
NCSU == MSU (NCSU wins, in a landslide, in a comparison of engineering programs).

Duke > UM (Duke is private, I know, but its impact is huge.)

NC has the advantage of having its three best schools in the same metropolitan area. Synergy. The Ann Arbor region has the University of Michigan and Eastern Michigan. University of Michigan carries the load there. Michigan State is in a dead manufacturing town; Raleigh-Durham is one of the top three centers for bioscience and high technology.

I only mention all of this to show the supposed advantage is not as large as some may think, and will shrink as the stupid politicians make the hard choices to cut education funding.

Solution: Michigan should cut the fat schools, and divert resources to the primary institutions. A bunch of poorly-educated people with college degrees doesn't create any long-term competitive advantage.

It's not all negative, but undeserved congratulation isn't appropriate. Reality must be looked square in the eye if Michigan is going to escape its decline.

The comparisons of colleges are pretty much right on, although I'd say that U of M is more of a research force than UVA even though UVA is generally tougher to get into. Also note the presence of College of William and Mary (also in the top 30 of US News rankings ahead of U of Wisconsin and U of Illinois) as a smaller residential liberal arts-focused university, James Madison as a solid second-tier univeristy, and George Mason as a larger public commuter professional-focused university that still has a solid research reputation and tough graduate programs in the DC area in addition to UVA and VT in terms of Virginia's public universities. I've never lived anywhere close to Virginia in my life, but they probably have the most comprehensive public university system across the board (plus a number of private institutions such as the University of Richmond, Washington and Lee and the neighboring DC schools like Georgetown and GWU).

The Research Triangle is a huge advantage to North Carolina - the combination of having so many academics and scientists in the same area has in turn spurned a huge amount of private businesses to go to the region. That's a mix that probably can't be duplicated. However, Ann Arbor is the one area in Michigan that people from across the country perceive to be cutting edge (East Coasters that would never think of living in Detroit end up applying to U of M in droves), so that ought to be leveraged. I don't have a plan, but maybe some people that are smarter than me can figure out how to use that asset.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

The comparisons of colleges are pretty much right on, although I'd say that U of M is more of a research force than UVA even though UVA is generally tougher to get into. Also note the presence of College of William and Mary (also in the top 30 of US News rankings ahead of U of Wisconsin and U of Illinois) as a smaller residential liberal arts-focused university, James Madison as a solid second-tier univeristy, and George Mason as a larger public commuter professional-focused university that still has a solid research reputation and tough graduate programs in the DC area in addition to UVA and VT in terms of Virginia's public universities. I've never lived anywhere close to Virginia in my life, but they probably have the most comprehensive public university system across the board (plus a number of private institutions such as the University of Richmond, Washington and Lee and the neighboring DC schools like Georgetown and GWU).

The Research Triangle is a huge advantage to North Carolina - the combination of having so many academics and scientists in the same area has in turn spurned a huge amount of private businesses to go to the region. That's a mix that probably can't be duplicated. However, Ann Arbor is the one area in Michigan that people from across the country perceive to be cutting edge (East Coasters that would never think of living in Detroit end up applying to U of M in droves), so that ought to be leveraged. I don't have a plan, but maybe some people that are smarter than me can figure out how to use that asset.

All that research is fine, but in order for it to foster growth, it has to be turned into commercial applications. That's what RTP has successfully done. Keep in mind Research Triangle Park was founded back in the 60's, and sat virtually empty for more than a decade. But they had the vision to set aside the land and to foster a technological epicenter.

On a much smaller scale, Michigan State's Alternative Energy Bio-Commerce site in Holland that is opening is what should be replicated in sites around the State. Michigan has two global competitive advantages in two highly critical areas:

1) We are the world center in transportation research, in a world that is relying more and more heavily on transportation and an oil supply that is in the most volatile region on the planet. Automobile sales are exploding in many developing countries, where very little movement is being made toward alternative energy vehicles. Why is Michigan not exploiting, investing in and fostering this expertise? South Carolina (Clemson University) is one state that is through their CU-ICAR Graduate School under construction.

2) We are surrounded by the largest collection of fresh water on the planet, in a world that is exploding in population, especially in water poor regions, and is putting more and more pressure on potable fresh water supplies. Why is Michigan not positioning itself as the "Center of Fresh Water Research and Sustainability"?

[MittenDweller82]

I must agree with the comments pertaining to NCSU, having attended there and moving back to my native state of Michigan. Better than U of M or State? Well if you are considering rankings from Newsweek regarding programs then U of M is in top ten in nearly all they offer. Michigan State is rarely in top 25, (minus agricultural and vet medicine) The triangle has its advantages and disadvantages. Many PhD students clipping hair and flipping burgers as a result of the over abundance of educated individuals. Does it give it an advantage over Michigan? Well research from the U.S. Census Bureau shows a abundance of graduates vacating our state, so its evident we need to start a campaign to retain our educated youth. I think it boils down to one simple fact, your degree is worth more in a striving economy, where ever that may happen to be. Michigan may have two of the most noted universities in the country, but with lack of apparent state funding they are as good as Granholms word. Peace

[ready4thesouth]

Hello Casy1
Where in michigan did u live and where in nc we are planning to move there this summer and we have 2 kids one is 6 and one is 14. Asheville is where I am smitton with.

[shestrixie547]

Your so Right ! im dying i live in FLINT~ Im outta here by the end of the summer I feel like i want to give up on life because of this place!!!

[scottmi65]

How bad do you think MI really is?

Not bad at all

I grew in Newaygo county and all my family and freinds still live there. I do not know anyone who is unemployed or losing their house.

I just took a job in the Detroit area that pays over 70k and is not auto industry or medical related and I have a High School education?

[billengland]

Not bad? You live in the state of confusion, not michigan.
Michigan has one of the highest forclosure rates in the nation.
Homes have dropped in price like a rock, I have seen personaly homes drop from 500 thousand to 130 thousand in detroit, In indian river I have seen homes drop from 6 million to 2 million for high end homes and low end homes drop at least 20% this year alone, but dont buy just yet, they will go lower.
No one can predict where this will all end. but we have blown past the 80s down turn and that one took to 91 to pull out.
I do not see michigan pulling out for several years and that is with a plan.
We have no plan for michigan now.
Raise taxes on a failing economy, add deficit to a deficit.
Michigan has the worst economy in the union, and any one who says it does not has not got a clue as to what is going on.
If you are a doctor who works every day I can see how you would not know what is going on with the rank and file.
Out side of that many people are loosing work,homes,and moving south.
I can understand people who love what michigan was, but you need to get a grip of reality, smell the roses as it were, Michigan is not doing well at all.
There were those who said that flint was doing good in the 80s, that was a big lie. Flint and michigan died in the 80s
If you are doing well because you have a ression proof job, or are retired that is fine, just dont lie to others as to what is going on in michigan on the whole. MICHIGAN IS NOT DOING WELL. ONE JOB THAT PAYS 70K IF IT IS TRUE AND I HAVE MY DOUBTS,DOES NOT MAKE A GOOD ECONOMY FOR A STATE.