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Alright children, stop fighting! I started this post to talk about MI's economy, jobs, growth, wealth, etc. Let's not argue about unimportant stuff such as who's bugs are bigger!!! BUG ENVY!!!
Anyway, You'll all be excited to learn that my hubby no longer has a job; the company he worked for went under!
I spent one summer in Mississippi and I will take an Alaskan winter any time let alone one in southern MI. You can't just sit in the shade in the South and get cool - give me a break. You take a shower, step outside, and it feels like you haven't showered in 2 weeks b/c you're sweating so bad out of every pore. Forgot about biking, jogging, or even going for a walk unless it's 6am or 8pm. You can always put on more clothes during the winter in MI. You can walk around naked in the summer in the South and it still won't help. Yeah, there is a/c in the south, but guess what, we have something called h-e-a-t in the north, lol. One can just as easily sit inside in the winter just as one can sit inside in the summer. If someone came in here and told me that weather on the Central Coast of CA is better than MI, I would have no argument. But all the people who live in the Southeast saying the weather is so much better there is just too much.
The grass will always be greener somewhere else for some people. The fact of the matter is that these people will always find something to bi^ch about. They're pissed off for being born and you can't do anything about it.
I grew up in Michigan, went in the service and upon discharge stayed in Northern California. Back then I was young, carefree with not a worry in the world. It was all about living life and having fund. Today, I am in my late 50's and living back in Michigan. I don't really care for it here because I consider myself to be a West Coast person. I work with a variety of people, who have different values (some that I appreciate and others, that I don't). A good friend that I work with thought I was born and raised in the West because I am so unlike many folks here. For me, that was a great compliment because I did, in fact, "Leave My Heart in San Francisco", or at least a large part of it. And NO (not that it matters), I am not gay.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that Michigan is a bad state, but lets face it, people here are distraught over the economy, losing their homes and jobs. If you don't have at least a 4 year degree, you face the prospect of working at a low paying job with a very dismal future. At this point, I am leaning toward leaving simply because time is drawing near and I want the best that life has to offer me. I think most people want that for themselves and their families.
I don't exactly know whats happened here. Michigan has a lot of potential. It is a beautiful state in the spring, summer and fall. What makes it like that is the winter months. So you kind of have a trade off.
When I lived out West, I had many friends, from many cultures and walks of life and I didn't sit back and really question anyone as long as they were productive members of society and didn't hurt anyone else in the process. It has been difficult to make friends here. People are very family oriented and don't seem to reach out to others they way they do in other parts of the country that I've lived. I don't know what's up with that because in a time when we really need each other to be strong and supportive, most feel they are on their own. I don't have to tell you that the United States has been going through some tough times. We all know whats transpired over the last 10 years or so and its not a pretty picture.
As for me, I'm not sure what to do. Living here is very questionable. Do I gamble on a move and find that nothing has changed for the better or do I keep on "keepin' on" and find a niche of people and interests that I enjoy right here in Michigan. Sure I could cop out and go, leaving it up to someone else to make things better or I could stay.
I am leaning towards leaving, since the area I live in doesn't offer me what I need to be at my best. In summary, I simply made a mistake but that doesn't mean everyone should follow suit. I want to follow my dreams, as the saying goes and I just can't do that here.
Being a Thousand Oaks gal I can tell you from my experience that the California of today is hardly recognizable from the California of twenty years ago. That's not some immigration slam, I'm all for diversity, that's just a fact.
I felt a constant tension there that wasn't present when I was younger.
It has just turned into a very uncomfortable place. Gangs, Smog and did I mention gangs? What a shame. California, for my money, was the most beautiful state in the lower 48 and now I wouldn't live there if you paid me.
My Aunt in Sacramento said it has gotten so congested it takes her three hours to go get groceries. SACRAMENTO of all places.
I wish you luck Mr. Hastings, but do yourself a favor and pay a visit before you make any rash decisions. The human Jukebox is dead and even if he weren't they would never allow him to walk the street in the new San Francisco. Everything that made SF cool got diluted when the $$$ came in.
CATO the ELDER: I could not agree more.
I tried to reward you with a point but they told me I've already shown you too much love. Oh well, you're absolutely on target.
JEFFNCANDACE: Another kindred spirit. Nice going.
Well its certain we all have common ground as it relates to the constraints currently facing Michigan residents, however one would say the problem is in the eye of the beholder. My current theory is that the state legislature wants Michigan to fry so we can start over again and have a comeback (hey the west will run out of water sooner or later) And evidently if you have followed the progress of the house they are in no hurry to patch the deficit (as a phd student I am appalled at the actions of increasing tuition in a state that already houses some of the lowest percentages of college educated people). People leave, few come, taxes leave and even more leave. So we take away from our future students and force parents to send them out of state for their edu. Nice, maybe we'll be relying on the fumes of cow farts to fuel our autos for the next 20 years methane plants will open up with Granholms face next to a cows rear Not in bad taste but the ideas of us sustain ourselves even in next years budget crisis. It will only carry over, there is no right way to say a wrong thing. The influential families in the det suburbs and near ann arbor have left years ago, selling their investments and fleeing to higher ground. Its no surprise the common family is following. Talk to a professor, a executive, they will all tell you to leave, and they are doing that very thing. When our nation becomes a complete socialist environment and people start to revolt then we'll have progress. To each his own. Dog eat dog. No other way to say it. Cheers
The influential families in the det suburbs and near ann arbor have left years ago, selling their investments and fleeing to higher ground. Its no surprise the common family is following.
There's some exaggeration here. The big hitting families are still here for the most part. Most who have left would have done so regardless. My in-laws are family friends with the trustee of the Max Fisher foundation. He is a brahmin himself - former CEO of a well-known bank around here. He owns a house in Florida and France, but he spends the vast majority of his time in MI at his home in Bloomfield Hills or up North. I get my haircut in Birmingham and I run into the former CEO of Lamborghini once in a while. He also owns a home in Florida, but spends most of the year in Bloomfield Hills or up North. Check out the list of donors to the recent DIA expansion - the largest in the museum's history by a mile - they are dominated by local people. The donors and foundations they control have funded the bulk of the costs, which are quite significant, not the government. This would not and could not have happened without these scores of influential families who all reside in MI for most of the year.
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Talk to a professor, a executive, they will all tell you to leave, and they are doing that very thing. When our nation becomes a complete socialist environment and people start to revolt then we'll have progress. To each his own. Dog eat dog. No other way to say it. Cheers
Wow, Ann Arbor and East Lansing must be ghost towns by now, lol! I AM a professor and I regularly talk to many execs who are family friends or related to my work at the DIA or WSU. They would not tell you to leave "just because" as you are suggesting. If you have a great opportunity elsewhere, by all means grab it! Everyone should make their own choice based on their own life circumstances. I left CA for many good reasons, but I didn't do it b/c so many other people are. One would be just as foolish to leave MI or any other state just b/c other people are.
There's some exaggeration here. The big hitting families are still here for the most part. Most who have left would have done so regardless. My in-laws are family friends with the trustee of the Max Fisher foundation. He is a brahmin himself - former CEO of a well-known bank around here. He owns a house in Florida and France, but he spends the vast majority of his time in MI at his home in Bloomfield Hills or up North. I get my haircut in Birmingham and I run into the former CEO of Lamborghini once in a while. He also owns a home in Florida, but spends most of the year in Bloomfield Hills or up North. Check out the list of donors to the recent DIA expansion - the largest in the museum's history by a mile - they are dominated by local people. The donors and foundations they control have funded the bulk of the costs, which are quite significant, not the government. This would not and could not have happened without these scores of influential families who all reside in MI for most of the year.
Wow, Ann Arbor and East Lansing must be ghost towns by now, lol! I AM a professor and I regularly talk to many execs who are family friends or related to my work at the DIA or WSU. They would not tell you to leave "just because" as you are suggesting. If you have a great opportunity elsewhere, by all means grab it! Everyone should make their own choice based on their own life circumstances. I left CA for many good reasons, but I didn't do it b/c so many other people are. One would be just as foolish to leave MI or any other state just b/c other people are.
As a former employee of the City of Bloomfield Hills I can speak from personal experience in regards to what is happening in the area. Much of the city rely on millages to support their local buildings and programs. Much of the elderly population who hold old family money are INVESTING in other areas of the country besides the Troy corridor. Try talking the residents that have lived near cranbrook about their taxes raising, and they will shut the door. Many are families with generations of ties to the auto industry. As far as my comment concerning the professors and exe's leaving. I do know many that have and do speak to many every day who see the relevance of leaving a state that is defined by a downfall. East Lansing never really had a whole lot going for it, anchored by the University, many of its professors live well outside of the city in Brighton and the Pinckney areas. Take away Msu and your left with a Flint or a Muskegon. As far as your reference to the individual family who has donated to the DIA, etc. There are some left who do spend money and are willing to invest in the area. I have done extensive research on economic shifts concerning once wealthy areas. Oakland county was once 2nd in the nation for Household income, and has since fallen out of the top ten list due to Michigan's population loss at nearly 4% each year. I never once made a comment to "leave just because", I am simply stating the obvious facts of our economy. If your from CA you should notice a stark difference in the way people live, avg. home costs and costs of living. This is not just a sheer number but defined by the local economy, in which case is the reason for the huge number of unsold homes and foreclosures. The percentage of people who hold positions of "ceo of a bank" or "university chair" are limited and few. The average income i Michigan is substantially lower than many other states. At my time at U of M i have seen many influential professors and researchers leave because of our situation. Ann arbor doesn't have money....its the parents who send their kids from LA, Boston, or other areas out east that provide the flow of money. In sociological terms it is called "renaissance". Of course the ceo of Lamborghini should be able to afford those things, if he cant there is something drastically wrong. But as previously mentioned very few individuals are in that category in this state. And more interesting is the fact that 4 out of 10 people are living with more debt they can handle. So the next time you drive by the new sub-division north of Novi or in West B, notice the lack of furniture or the escort sitting in the driveway. Or better yet that no one has bought the homes. What do you teach?
I think Ann Arbor is a great place to live, and I paid property taxes and a mortgage when I was studying there. Nonetheless, I had economics professors tell me that they would leave and go to Washington DC if they could.
The percentage of people who hold positions of "ceo of a bank" or "university chair" are limited and few. The average income i Michigan is substantially lower than many other states. At my time at U of M i have seen many influential professors and researchers leave because of our situation.
You don't understand academia. You don't have to hold a chair to have tenure. The majority of full-time faculty have tenure, usually associate professor and professor at most universities. This means that you cannot be fired short of committing a felony. In the humanities, UMich also pays near the top of the heap - they keep their pay close to their "peer schools," which would be Berkeley, Northwestern, Chicago, the Ivies minus Harvard/Yale/Princeton, Duke, Stanford, etc. UMich is one of the top 10 academic jobs to have in the nation - top reputation, good endowment, small teaching load, nice college town, bright students - these positions are far and few between. In my field, it's a top 3 job - UMich's department recently sniped a faculty member from UNC and NYU. There are VERY few positions that would make someone leave Ann Arbor and it has nothing to do with the economy of MI.
Overall, I am once again agreeing that the economy isn't great in the entire US. It's a bit worse in the Rust Belt and MI has had better days. On the flipside, MI isn't a battleground for War of the Worlds with mobs running for the border. There is no rioting. Here in Metro Detroit, cars are still crowding the streets despite gas prices and people are still lined up around the corner at the ice cream shop. Every state waxes and wanes. MI will never be CA or NY, but it also won't be Montana or Oklahoma any time soon.
You don't understand academia. You don't have to hold a chair to have tenure. The majority of full-time faculty have tenure, usually associate professor and professor at most universities. This means that you cannot be fired short of committing a felony. In the humanities, UMich also pays near the top of the heap - they keep their pay close to their "peer schools," which would be Berkeley, Northwestern, Chicago, the Ivies minus Harvard/Yale/Princeton, Duke, Stanford, etc. UMich is one of the top 10 academic jobs to have in the nation - top reputation, good endowment, small teaching load, nice college town, bright students - these positions are far and few between. In my field, it's a top 3 job - UMich's department recently sniped a faculty member from UNC and NYU. There are VERY few positions that would make someone leave Ann Arbor and it has nothing to do with the economy of MI.
Overall, I am once again agreeing that the economy isn't great in the entire US. It's a bit worse in the Rust Belt and MI has had better days. On the flipside, MI isn't a battleground for War of the Worlds with mobs running for the border. There is no rioting. Here in Metro Detroit, cars are still crowding the streets despite gas prices and people are still lined up around the corner at the ice cream shop. Every state waxes and wanes. MI will never be CA or NY, but it also won't be Montana or Oklahoma any time soon.
Wow, even as a Phd student I don't understand the University as a operating bureaucracy...interesting, i never said tenure=a chair position. Which are entirely different things. As far as the professors I have known to leave the U, their decisions were not soley based on Michigan's current economy but rather the shape it would be in 5-10 years time.( I guess their just lying to me then) A large number of associate professors at U of M do NOT have tenure and sign contracts saying there is no chance of having it. They are there for research purposes, move on to another university where a tenure track position is more likely. This is the situation with many post doctoral positions, as is with my close friend Nick Ramsey, who is one of the most noted mathematicians from Harvard. Living in Ann Arbor I would never down the city as it is one of the few places where you can go to a establishment and talk something else besides sports. Among many other things (no offense) And at U of M and Eastern Michigan most non-tenure lecturing and other staff have little benefits and are not part of any unions for protection against decisions made by any committee. I'm not here to argue who is and isn't leaving the state, I simply study census information and interview various professors business owners and others who are willing to talk. It is not my opinion. I'm not here to argue, I hope the state does turn around, I dont really want to leave but must to find a decent position in my field. Cheers
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