How bad do you think MI really is? (Detroit, Wayne: homes, rent)

[April H]

Yes, Michigan looks alot like West Virginia which is exactly what I thought a few years ago driving through Charleston; a grimy, dingy, depressed poor town. I left Michigan when I turned 18 and never looked back. I now live in N. Carolina, and I LOVE it here. Better economy, BEAUTIFUL, CLEAN area, and near everything. I have the mountains, sand dunes, and ocean all within a few short hours of a drive. If you do some digging, about a week ago a news paper article was published about moving in/out of some states, and Michigan was #1 with 66% MOVING OUT and N.Carolina was #1 with 68% MOVING IN! It goes to show you that even though there may be a threat of hurricanes every now and then (this past season had none!), people are getting smart and want to live somewhere that is better economically and the people are so much nicer here also! NORTHERN BORN, SOUTHERN BY CHOICE!

[Sociologist]

Okay: Before anyone gets the wrong impression, I have lived in Michigan my entire life and admire our state. Here's where I get angry: We have a great state but poor leadership. Is it in my nature to complain? No, although when you are lectured day in and out by economists, tax professionals and other educators regarding our economy it beats the bad drum every day. Although it is true if you speak to someone who has had a hardship (lots of people can relate) they will have a bad picture painted regarding our economy. Conversely, if someone is well to do or their industry unaffected by our situation they will have a harder time seeing eye to eye. When data gets reported to state officials (especially regarding unemployment) its always +/- 3% generally due to the fact that not every who doesn't have a job draws unemployment, and yes their may be 3-5% more people in the state who do not get a check, get denied unemployment, or are disqualified for some other reason. They then are not calculated into our state percentage. If you have ever seen "Cool City" signs around Jackson or small communities a long time friend and class mate of mine who now is a city planner has funded a lot of initiative for that program. I too have had a role in meeting with city officials discussing alternative ways to stimulate growth. I also have a problem with the media, especially the papers. If your a reporter you can do little research and publish your information and Joe Shmoe will believe it, and not think twice about it. Yes, a lot of people talk really bad about Michigan, and the only reason I have is because of how I have had to watch it go down hill in the last decade. What can we do? Virtually nothing, unless you can change the demographic makeup of our state to attract different employers. To people thinking of moving here: If your industry is thriving, then Michigan will probably be the highest paying place you can find, with great housing value. If your in manufacturing or education, maybe you should reconsider or find a community that needs those areas. Overall, I am sadden by what our leaders are doing, and not doing.

[Sociologist]

All the talk about moving out: I have lived in 3 states, NC, IN, and MI. Raleigh, NC, Fort Wayne, IN, and several cities in Michigan. I must say that everything is realitive and will stay that way. Raleigh was nice, and yes NC has the highest influx of people right now but they also have problems: Raleigh has three of the largest universities in the nation, and many doctoral graduates running around working at the mall. A whole lot of over qualified people. Fort Wayne was one of the cheapest places I've ever seen, but finding a position that payed 30K was unheard of; no room for growth. I've lived in metro Detroit, Ann Arbor, and Chelsea area. Many displaced factory and automotive workers looking for a job pushes the young and elders (who still work) down into low paying wages. Would I move back to Michigan if I left (which I am leaving). Yes, if the state was to begin investing in high tech industry and if we had a entirely new tax system, government and initiatives. If your looking to relocate to MI: Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Metro Detroit have the most abundant employment. Anyone looking to move out: You'll find different problems that will hamper you to do things as well. Move where you want to and be happy!

[jetsjoe]

April H-

Accoring to the Florida and NC forums, Florida used to be the so called "promised land" before the hurricanes wiped away everything for thousands of people and ruined the lives. Now, all those people are heading to NC. So guess what? It will not be so clean that much longer. NC is the new Florida. Good luck with that.

[Spats]

I have lived in Michigan for 42 years- born and raised in Flint, and lived for 7 years in Kalamazoo on the west side of the state. Let's see...you have world class violence along the I 75 corridor with Saginaw, Flint, and Detroit leading the COUNTRY in violent crime. This is not new. Flint and Detroit have been on a downward slide since the riot in Detroit in 67, and the 73 oil embargo pretty much killed Flint. Just to make sure GM whacked 60,000 jobs in 86.. But let me be clear GM did not owe Flint anything, the city had the highest per capita income in the country in the late sixties and early seventies yet neither the city fathers, nor the state leaders did anything to diversify the economy...hence when GM sneezes Detroit got penumonia..and Flint got the Buboinc plague! Before you get all excited about the west side of the state take a look at all of the job losses from Pfizer, GM, James River, Steelcase, and others and it doesn't look good. When we moved back to east side of the state we were shocked at how much more we had to pay for a comparable home - our old home in Kzoo just sold under appraisal again- 7 years later. In the meantime we have re-elected a WEAK gov. who has done nothing for the state of consequence. In plain terms she either a) is useless..or b) is great or at least good..and threfore no one can do anything..in which case cancel Christmas...we are in deep **** and sinking fast. Other than the economy and record violence (Detroit most dangerous city in America in 2006, Flint number 2), bad roads, and crubmbling infrastructure - we are also cursed with some of the worst weather in the country, and probably the worst. While some other states are colder by a margin, we claim victory (or is it defeat?) by virture of the fact that we have about 300 cloudy days. Look at CNN's analysis of best places to live and observe that Scottsdale, AZ enjoys 223 days of sunshine to our 65...and you will see why so much scotch is consumed in this state 9 months out of the year. As for my hometown...time and space do not permit elocution as to the pathetic, disgusting and vile levels to which it has sunk. If you want to see the future of Flint- pick up a copy of Coleman Youngs autobiography...you'll get the idea...the current mayor holds a 9th grade education, is a convicted felon, and is engaged in open hatred and war with his own police department! Oh for all of you ' we love west michigan' people - take a look at the racial tensions in Grand Rapids, Niles, Kalamazoo, and of course Benton Harbor and you'll get a good idea of why you should not bash the east side. As for Traverse City, and the rest of the super frigid north and UP- I say bravo- and congrats on avoiding skin cancer since you NEVER see the sun, and have warm weather a whole 77 day s a year..there are people in Greenland who see more real sunshine- but damn those leaves are pretty in the fall..which brings me to the " I love the change of seasons crowd" and to them I say - what seasons? Michigan football kicks off to 93 degrees every year and somewhere around Halloween goes to 10 below and the sun disappears for oh about 7 or 8 months...during which we get to enjoy opening day for the Tigers while wearing a skimask and thermal underpants. So why don't I leave? I have been lucky enough to have an outstanding job for almost all of my working life- and an income that would be difficult to recreate quickly elsewhere, I have close family ties, and long term friendships..and here I stay..there are some other attriubutes, good golf courses, Troy is a cool little city, northern michigan is beautiful for the 70 days of summer, and Michigan is a superb sports state. But it's mostly the job and family, and MOSTLY family that cements me here. I cherish the closeness with my small clan more than the torment of riding the back of a stubmbling, mortally wounded dinosaur. I use the ability to buy a winter home someday in AZ of FLA, or NV as total motivation to be work hard adn be successful....for a tragedy indeed if I were to clutch the Tryanosaur's neck for another 40 plus years....methinks It would long prior collapse in a heap taking my tired, angry, light deprived carcass with it. So my advice is as the man once said- " Go West Young Man"- and no, I do not mean Battle Creek!!!!

[The Icy River Vagabond]

The fishing in Michigan is also world class.

[JV80]

Originally Posted by politikally

IMHO...

Well many people will claim that the grass is always greener on the other side - it is slightly true. But with the way things are in Michigan right now, it's more green everywhere else.

Upside to moving away:

-Jobs, Jobs, and Jobs galore compared to Michigan (which I read somewhere is averaging 2500 resumes per job)
-The pay will be MUCH higher, because they can't get away with paying low wages around here - there's no buses carrying people from Detroit to accept them.
-Health Insurance
-K-12 Schools are begining to slide in Michigan because of the economy
-Less Crime
-FAR less racism. Out of the 11 states I've lived in Michigan is by far the most racist state of them all
-No more unions! (well much fewer unions, as Michigan is the last stronghold)


Downside to Moving away:

-You have to make new "roots"
-Housing will generally be more expensive elsewhere. Since so many people are leaving Michigan (it actually had NEGATIVE population growth!) the prices in Michigan are dropping rapidly, as people try to sell more and more houses to fewer and fewer buyers.
-You'll probably miss Meijer I have yet to figure out where everything is in a Super Target.


And finally in response to BGF:

-Logging is dead... the federal government up in the UP has restricted it to the point of suffication. The biggest employer in the UP by far is Cleveland Cliffs (the Mines) - which are also dying. They're only projected to last another few years before they close.
-Farming is a part of the economy, but I wouldn't say it is a primary industry. Granholm or the rest of the politicians in Lansing sure don't act like it. They continually help the "other" industries to try and keep them alive, and they've neglected farming.

Believe it or not one of the bigger industries in Michigan that few people know about is Oil and Gas. Ever drive up 127 and see those oil pumps and vent stacks? It's a significant part of the economy.

The way I see it is that traffic hasn't gotten any better on I-75 from Clarkston all the way to Detroit. If so many people are leaving or all the jobs are going away wouldn't traffic get better. I have lived in MI all my life and traffic seems to be getting worse every year. There are many jobs in IN area like Goshen, IN and Elkhart, IN area. The camper business is huge around that area there is always jobs available.

[JV80]

Originally Posted by Magnat68

Good Luck to you! We would love to move out of MI and back to CO and would do it in a heartbeat, but we are lucky enough to have a great paying job here for the moment. We also have a quite a bit of debt.... so we can't take a pay cut just yet.

We loved CO but we lost our jobs out htere when the company we worked for was sold off and dismantled. So, we went where we had our first reasonable job offer and that was back here in MI....that was also almost 10 years ago now. We miss CO incredibly and when we lived there we felt like we were on a long vacation. Life was a vacation!! I must say though, that we did miss our families, and we thought moving back we'd see them more, they would see the children more etc. We'll not true. we moved back but still too far for "help" with the kids once they came along, but close enough for the family to be a hassle. We are constantly fighting for our time at home over the holidays etc. At least in CO we could do what we wanted. If we wanted to see the family for the holidays we came home if we didn't we stayed put. I want that part of my life back again.

Definitely visit the places first if you can! We're going to start vacationing in CO again next year...and hope to be moved their between 2009 and 2012. Sounds like a long ways off, but we have to get our "house" in order first and praying it doesn't take us "that" long!

Blessings

Could you not find a job in CO or did they just not pay enough. Like you said being away from family can be tough. I have a friend who moved to CO like a year ago and he seems to like it quite a bit. Have you been trying to find any jobs in CO since you have been here or are the wages not as good out there. I have been in MI my whole life although I have traveled in the US a little bit. I drove to San Diego CA almost 2 years ago on the way back we drove thru CO it was one of the most beautiful states I have ever seen. The mountains were breath taking. I wish I could have stopped. Well good luck

[palaceman71]

Okay. I have a great job. I'm not bragging. I just can't stay shut up about this any more. So what? What is the point of having a great job if you leave work at 5 pm completely exhilirated only to find there is nothing to do but go home?

Scr-w my great job in Detroit. I'm outta here.

[Sociologist]

I must agree, but shall not indulge in the strife of Michigan's downfall. That IS just the word for it....tragic. And no one seems to be interested in changing th effects (those in power to do so). When you encompass a nearly 1 billion shortfall for state money your talking about decades of recovery. State and local media has continued to ignore and distort truth about our state and the severity of our situation. Automotive is no longer a Michigan term, it is a ball and chain that Granholm is trying to hold on to. Southern states such as Alabama and Louisiana have taken the premise of manufacturing due to the fact that no unions exist in those areas. Encompass change or encompass nothing". As a Michigan native its becoming sad to continue to see the state dive but help cant come from the common individual. But what will staying in the state do? Restructuring takes decades, and more so for a state that has been built on manufacturing for over a century. Come back to Mi in 40 years....maybe