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We also love Whitmer, and agree with all she has done to help Michigan. Don't understand any of the negative rhetoric on this forum against her. She truly serves in our best interests, and represents most of us.
My husband and I also would gladly pay .45 cents extra per gallon to fix the roads. Afterall, the drivers are the ones who use the roads, plus the public trasportation system and the bicyclists. It's a matter of safety and quality of life. In Europe, gas is currently about $5 USA equivalent and pays for many programs, including nice roads and autobahns. It's always a joy when I drive out of Michigan and into Canada where the roads improve amazingly, and the drivers drive more slowly. Always such a disappointment driving back home into Michigan where the roads are crap. Take time to visit other places, and see where things are done right. Good roads can be paid for with gas tax or sales tax funds, but also property taxes can pay for them. Interstate highways can be paid for with federal tax, tolls, gas tax or sales tax. In any case, money needs to come from somewhere. I think the .45 cent a gallon tax is a straightforward solution.
Gretchen Whitmer is trying very hard to bring up Michigan to better standards, and to protect others from Covid19. She was spot on in closing gyms and beauty salons. Of course, my hair and my kids hair is all completely down to our waists now, and I will take on the task as a barber here which I'm fine with. Guess I will see how how my husband does with cutting my hair, but past the waist is just too long now. No biggie if not perfect. Better than a salon with Covid19.
Also, Whitmer opposed removing elderly Covid19 patients from nursing homes, and preferred isolation areas instead as the bill she vetoed did not provide the elderly Covid19 patients with any protections, both for moving them and for caring for them properly at another location. Moving them as the bill was written would likely just kill them. It was not her fault if there was a shortage of ventilators. That's both a supply problem and a problem with the anti-maskers running all over spreading the virus.
The bumpkins here that oppose her are too greedy and short sighted to see all the benefit she has brought to Michigan. She has helped move our state forward, not backward, and she always rises to the occasion, whatever major issues may arise. Our family is so glad she is our governor here!
Last edited by PacificaViews; 11-12-2020 at 09:09 AM..
Thanks to those who scoffed at the governor's directives to keep Covid-19 levels down in our hospitals, very sick patients are starting to overwhelm our health care systems again!
It's a terrible thing for everyone here, as well as our families. As a retired health care worker, tears come to my eyes at the thought of what our hospital employees have to deal with right now. I don't know if I could take it. Trying to save dying patients is agonizing and you take the pain and anxiety home with you, day after day.
So many more Michiganders will die, whether they supported Whitmer not; no masks, not taking it seriously enough. It's a terrible way to die, too.
Whitmer may have gotten a little bit carried away briefly, but she was taking us in the right direction. We will have to be more careful once again and take Covid-19 seriously, and it won't be convenient.
We also love Whitmer, and agree with all she has done to help Michigan. Don't understand any of the negative rhetoric on this forum against her. She truly serves in our best interests, and represents most of us.
My husband and I also would gladly pay .45 cents extra per gallon to fix the roads. Afterall, the drivers are the ones who use the roads, plus the public trasportation system and the bicyclists. It's a matter of safety and quality of life. In Europe, gas is currently about $5 USA equivalent and pays for many programs, including nice roads and autobahns. It's always a joy when I drive out of Michigan and into Canada where the roads improve amazingly, and the drivers drive more slowly. Always such a disappointment driving back home into Michigan where the roads are crap. Take time to visit other places, and see where things are done right. Good roads can be paid for with gas tax or sales tax funds, but also property taxes can pay for them. Interstate highways can be paid for with federal tax, tolls, gas tax or sales tax. In any case, money needs to come from somewhere. I think the .45 cent a gallon tax is a straightforward solution.
Gretchen Whitmer is trying very hard to bring up Michigan to better standards, and to protect others from Covid19. She was spot on in closing gyms and beauty salons. Of course, my hair and my kids hair is all completely down to our waists now, and I will take on the task as a barber here which I'm fine with. Guess I will see how how my husband does with cutting my hair, but past the waist is just too long now. No biggie if not perfect. Better than a salon with Covid19.
Also, Whitmer opposed removing elderly Covid19 patients from nursing homes, and preferred isolation areas instead as the bill she vetoed did not provide the elderly Covid19 patients with any protections, both for moving them and for caring for them properly at another location. Moving them as the bill was written would likely just kill them. It was not her fault if there was a shortage of ventilators. That's both a supply problem and a problem with the anti-maskers running all over spreading the virus.
The bumpkins here that oppose her are too greedy and short sighted to see all the benefit she has brought to Michigan. She has helped move our state forward, not backward, and she always rises to the occasion, whatever major issues may arise. Our family is so glad she is our governor here!
I'm not sure what Canada you are driving to. Also, I think that Michigan roads are better (not great) compared to Illinois. We have a higher gas tax, and I believe now higher registration fees. Higher taxes do not equal better services in this country.
It's always a joy when I drive out of Michigan and into Canada where the roads improve amazingly, and the drivers drive more slowly. Always such a disappointment driving back home into Michigan where the roads are crap. Take time to visit other places, and see where things are done right. Good roads can be paid for with gas tax or sales tax funds, but also property taxes can pay for them.
Good roads exist in Ohio and Indiana. How have those states been building good roads?
What I scoff at is not the concept ot trying to slow the spread of covid, but the stupid impractical, senseless and conflicting order she made. Her ursurption of power and her use of that usurped power to attack her political opponents (and people she just does not like). I would not hold the fact that she did not accomplish anything against her if the orders were sensible, rational, and within her powers. What she ended up doing by her absurd and sometimes childish rules is to destroy her credibility and the credibility of those rules, so many people just ignore even the ones that make some sense.
Good roads exist in Ohio and Indiana. How have those states been building good roads?
Good roads exist in Michigan too, just not in the more populated areas. We are still not even in the top ten states with the worst roads.
Ohio and Indiana also have many bad roads. it is partly an issue of visibility. In Michigan we had a law that road money had to be distributed evenly. Thus roads in rural counties with little wear go the same amounts as roads in highly populated areas. Many or most other states do the opposite. they spend more money on roads in highly traveled areas. That way the most people possible see good roads, while the rural roads are in terrible shape. That is why some states (California for example) are higher on the list of bad roads even though, if you were to go visit, you would say that is crazy, their roads are beautiful. They have more roads that are bad even though most people in the state will never see most of the really terrible roads.
Also Ohio and Indiana have been spending a lot more than Michigan on their roads for a very long time. 40 years of band aids and short cuts are taking their toll here.
While they can just continue to ignore decaying roads so they can keep funding their pet projects, bridges are another story. When the bridge fails, the road is done. We have hundreds of failing bridges, possibly thousands. Most people do not even realize how many bridges they cross over or under in a day. Every time a road crosses water there is a bridge. Many railroad crossings or crossings with freeways or even other roads involve a bridge. Bridges are not always obvious. Some roads have already been closed at a failing bridge. In some cases the bridge has been removed. these are mostly in remote places for now. The number of roads ending at a failed bridge will increase every year from now on. Even a huge infusion of money will only allow the State to focus on the main roads and freeways. The cost toreplace all the fialed bridges on little roads is simply not practical.
The legislature and governors were warned for the past ten plus years. Every year we wait, the cost grows exponentially. We are past the pint of no return. The cost and time to fix everything is not achievable. Some roads are just going to have to be closed, at least partially. Other roads will need to be unpaved (turned back into dirt roads). The complete system is not recoverable in our lifetimes.
Michigan is also in a pretty unfortunate climate spot when it comes to high annual freeze/thaw cycling, which it can’t do anything about and allows higher weights for semitrailer, which it could control. Both of these things can have big impacts on road wear and tear
What I scoff at is not the concept ot trying to slow the spread of covid, but the stupid impractical, senseless and conflicting order she made. Her ursurption of power and her use of that usurped power to attack her political opponents (and people she just does not like). I would not hold the fact that she did not accomplish anything against her if the orders were sensible, rational, and within her powers. What she ended up doing by her absurd and sometimes childish rules is to destroy her credibility and the credibility of those rules, so many people just ignore even the ones that make some sense.
I am referring to the concept of trying to slow the spread of Covid. Too many people have been ignoring common sense directives (no excuses for that) so we find ourselves where were we are now. I am not referring to you, Coldjensens, because I know that you know better.
Michigan is also in a pretty unfortunate climate spot when it comes to high annual freeze/thaw cycling, which it can’t do anything about and allows higher weights for semitrailer, which it could control. Both of these things can have big impacts on road wear and tear
Theoretically, those things could have big impacts, but reality is different than theory. We have the technology to build roads that, with prop[er maintenance can withstand the freeze thaw cycles. no question freeze thaw still shortens road life, but lots of sates have the same clayey glacial till and the same freeze thaw cycles. however many of those states deal with it much better than we do.
The heavy truck assertion is a red herring tossed out by a special interest group - I do not remember wat they are trying to gain, maybe just an excuse for not fixing the roads. There are very very few excess weight trucks on the roads. the weight is spread over more axels so the point load is less than in other states, although he overall load is greater (which impact bridges and stopping and starting on the road surface). However the few heavy trucks that are used are mostly on freeways and certain industrial collector streets. Our roads and bridges are bad everywhere. Our freeways, where most of the heavy trucks travel, are probably in the best shape of any of our roads. That is someone's poor excuse and distraction from their failure to do what is necessary to fix and maintain our roads.
The fact is simple - money. We do not spend enough of it on our roads and have not spent enough for decades (nearly 50 years). Comparing gas and other taxes is irrelevant, it is what is spent on roads. Ours gas tax is pretty high now, but part of the money goes to schools not roads. The road money gets divided between roads and other things like mass transit (busses and light rail or trolley systems), monuments to politicians and their friends, turtle fences, maintenance (including beautification like painting walls and cutting grass), pet projects, and of course some gets eaten up by graft and corruption. When comparing actual expenditure on repair and replacing roads compared to there states, we are and have been one of the lowest for decades and decades. The hard part for many people to understand is the way the costs increase. It might cost $1 million for fix/replace a certain section of ten mile road in 2020. However if we wait until 2022 it will cost 1.2 million. If we wait until 2024 to fix it, it will cost 4 million to fix the same section of the same road. If a road is allowed to sit broken with the normally protected parts exposed to weather, it will decay faster and faster. This is especially true of bridges. Many bridges could have been fixed for a million or so, but they were not fixed. They were allowed to decay to the point where they now must be replaced at a cost of 50 - 100 million. This warning fell on deaf ears for the past ten years at least. Now it is too late. they simply cannot catch the rising cost. We have to close some roads and bridges and make our road footprint smaller, then when we have managed to update and repair/replace the smaller footprint they can begin to expand out to the original scope of road system once again. We will all be dead long before they get to that part.
As a newcomer to Michigan 3 1/2 years here so far, I find that too many citizens are resistant to change. Without change and without planning, you simply go backwards.
Other states plan ahead, study how things are done in other places, plan ahead, and get prepared.
Despite the freeze and thaw cycle here, which is bad, just try driving to and from Niagra Falls Ontario via Sarnia. The roads are day and night (well maybe not as bad as Illinois which is pothole hell). Canadian roads are beautiful, and they have the same climate as we do here in Michigan.
We just need people to be able to envision nicer roads, and agree to the appropriate taxation or toll roads to make that happen. But too many are stubborn, selfish, and resistant to going forward with changes. Also, we need to reduce speed limits here in Michigan. Construction workers have died here in Lansing this last week thanks to fast drivers. Canada has a 55mph speed limit, and here in Michigan many drive like depraved lunatics on your bumper, then pass you going 100mph. The roads and the mean drivers are my main gripe about living here in Michigan (oh, and the mosquitos), not the winters.
Also, many Michiganders did not plan ahead for Covid19. In times like this, we need to reposition ourselves, and realign with the current situation and marketplace: online appointments vs in person appointments; take-out food instead of dine-in; virtual learning vs in class learning; mask wearing vs non-mask wearing; delivery job instead of store clerk, etc. etc. People are tough, and can be extremely adaptable. I just find a few too many Michiganders who are unwilling to plan ahead and adapt, though, and then we have Covid19 spread out of control.
Anyway, I will continue my support of Governor Whitmer. She makes moving to and living here in Michigan a much more positive experience.
Last edited by PacificaViews; 11-13-2020 at 12:03 PM..
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