[magellan]

Originally Posted by talbet

The thing is that there are many places that are just as or more beautiful than Michigan. This state does not hold some special title to "beauty" It is not the definition of beauty except to an individual. When people come from over seas you do not have a rush to Michigan like the Grand Canyon, or the black hills, or Yellowstone, Yosemite, or even the everglades. It is nice in the summer and people who are there by choice or stuck there and try to make it the best place in the world because they are stuck in it. Winters are harsh, and hard to deal with. Many people move to a state that has warmer climates in winter when retirement age is reached. The problem now is that Michigan does not have the industrial base to keep people there until then and you have a net loss. People are moving out of Florida but not because of the weather but because of the economic down turn. Michigan will never be a retirement Mecca for the masses, yes there may be a few that retire to Michigan but it will never be on a scale of Florida or the southern states. Florida IMO will return to its former Mecca much sooner than Michigan will return to an industrial giant. Industry has changed and Michigan is not on the cutting edge, palm trees to not change and warm sand in February will always have a draw. To me Traverse City is beautiful from May to September, but I just left MI and it was already getting cold, where I am now it is 75 in the day and nights are 55, and in February it may get as low as 22 for a day or so but then back to 45 in the days. I can deal with that, I cannot deal with 8ft snow banks, 20 below zero days, and holding up in the cabin until May. To me Michigan is a great place to visit but not to live. As industry moves overseas I think the days of Michigan as in industrial powerhouse is mostly over. I do not know this to be true, but if past activity is any indication of future activity then it will be so. The country has much bigger problems than Michigan alone, even though Detroit is ground zero or the gold standard for how bad things are. Everyone compares how bad a city is to Detroit and a state to Michigan. 90% of the economy north and south in Michigan was run on the Auto industry or a indirectly related to it. Even the housing industry I was in North Michigan that boomed in the 90s was related to the health of the auto industry. That has collapsed and does not look good for the future. I tried to tell stubborn people 2 years ago to sell their home at a price they thought was ripping them off, and told them if I was correct in a few years they would think it was the buyer that was ripped off. I was told by my local assessor that I gave my 80 acres and home away. Now it looks like I robbed the bank. One family member was offered 142k for his home and played around 6 months before the collapse and now cannot get 79k for it. I fear that the worst is not over, and I can remember arguing with a real estate agent that said 2 years ago that the worst was over and things were coming back nicely, that she was out of touch with reality. Now the most ostrich oriented of the hard heads either have to agree with me or just do not even try to argue and sit in the corner and steam like I created it. I still do not see anything on the horizon that is turning around, and you have to remember that in the late 70s recession things did not turn around for Michigan until about 91 or 92 when it really started to take off. And this is so much worse than that recession ever though of being. The bottom line is if you like Michigan and can afford to live there what does it matter if someone thinks it is ugly? Does your happiness rely on the perception of beauty of another person? If so you will never be happy. Personally I think parts of Michigan are beautiful in summer, winter is beautiful on my TV screen or post card but not when I have to fight the debilitating snow storms and bitter cold for 5 months of the year. There is a reason that California and Florida has triple and double the population of Michigan. If Florida had 8 foot snow banks in January half the population would not be there.

One...big...runon...sentence....

[Ryeno]

Originally Posted by JenM

I started to realize about 15 years ago, that people viewed Michigan as a "Backwards, Hillbilly place." This realization hit when I was watching the tonight show; Jay Leno was interviewing Tim Allen (who was born and raised in Michigan). And Jay Leno began the interview something like this: So Tim, you live in Michigan? Do they even have running water yet?!" Tim laughs, the audience laughs and that was that. But it really struck me odd that Jay would ask a question like that.

Thats because its true.

Originally Posted by JenM

Now I know the economy isn't the best right now and that is not what I am referring to

see people in michigan are soo backwards they have to think in terms of there economy being "not so bad" instead of "good"

Originally Posted by JenM

But have you ever seen the white sandy beaches in MI,

Whats soo special about that. Soo many states have sandy beachs. If anything the miami beachs murder the michigan ones because of the temp and the amount of people there (namy chicks)

Originally Posted by JenM

or been to Mackinaw Island? Or Traverse City or the U.P. or anywhere in Detroit? There is a lot more to do here than that.

Honestly it sounds to me like you are trying to make something out of nothing. The fact is there is 10x the things to do in hollywood or west la then in any of those places COMBINED.

Originally Posted by JenM

Also I believe that MI truly gets a taste of all 4 seasons. Our summers are hot(IMHO) topping out at 95 degrees on many days in August.

Wow 95 degrees with 99 percent humdiity, who doesnt love sweating like a pig?

Originally Posted by JenM

I love fall; the apple-picking, the pumpkin carving, the hiking,etc.

Apple-picking and pumpkin carving are pretty hick activies. Thats not really helping your case.

Originally Posted by JenM

And winter may start in November, but we don't ever really have a good snowfall until January.

You say that like its a good thing.

Originally Posted by JenM

But my favorite thing about MI is what a good place it is to raise a family, the great school systems, the focus on the family and the smell of a cool fall morning while sitting on the porch sipping a piping hot cup of coffee!

WOW is this a joke.

Good place to raise a family? Sure if you like your kids growing up to be poor. And i am not talking about the economy. Just our of curiosity have you gown to high school in lets say michigan and california? I have and i can honestly say the "shock" i got from leaving michigan was incredible.

The people in michigan ARE hicks, they ARE backwords and they are NOT people you want to associate with or hang out. FTW i went to school in troy which is supposedly a good city. In my high school the teachers had soo much power it was ridicluous. I mean they could do w/e they want with no consequences because the kids were soo poor they couldnt stand up for themselves (get there parents to sue the school), Not only that but being poor they didnt even realize how f'd up the situation was. For instance one of my teachers would also sneak peaks at girls cheasts in class. Everyone knew he was a perv, even the girls. But none of them could even think of telling there parents, parents calling there attorny(because they dont have one) and getting that teacher kicked out. In California (well the good areas) the teachers for the most part cant get away with stuff like that because the parents will actually do something.

And its not just the teachers that suck, its the whole curriculum and what it turns you into. I remember in one of the econ books it told us manufacturing jobs were the past and service jobs are the future. So if our parents get laid off, cant find work, because there manufacturing job is gone is okay because society is advancing since service jobs are the future. Idk how you can even say the schools are good.

Then the kids are just hood. I had a fight in my nice suburband high school every day and there were even days when a whole classroom would turn in a race fight. Whits v Arab v Blacks. Its ridiculous. That was high school yet it seemed like prison. There were days i was afried to get stabbed, thats how messed up it was. Never did i feel not safe in the california school i went too. Even tho half the kids werent even my same race.

Combine the last 3 paragraphs together and what to do you get. An environment that litterly turns you into a union slave because your soo dumbed down that you will never be able to make it big or just a hood rat.

I never realized how hick mi was until i left it. Its quite shocking talking to the people who still live there because you can just tell something is off about them. And its not just the nasily accent.

[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by Ryeno

Thats because its true.


see people in michigan are soo backwards they have to think in terms of there economy being "not so bad" instead of "good"

Whats soo special about that. Soo many states have sandy beachs. If anything the miami beachs murder the michigan ones because of the temp and the amount of people there (namy chicks)


Honestly it sounds to me like you are trying to make something out of nothing. The fact is there is 10x the things to do in hollywood or west la then in any of those places COMBINED.

Wow 95 degrees with 99 percent humdiity, who doesnt love sweating like a pig?


Apple-picking and pumpkin carving are pretty hick activies. Thats not really helping your case.


You say that like its a good thing.


WOW is this a joke.

Good place to raise a family? Sure if you like your kids growing up to be poor. And i am not talking about the economy. Just our of curiosity have you gown to high school in lets say michigan and california? I have and i can honestly say the "shock" i got from leaving michigan was incredible.

The people in michigan ARE hicks, they ARE backwords and they are NOT people you want to associate with or hang out. FTW i went to school in troy which is supposedly a good city. In my high school the teachers had soo much power it was ridicluous. I mean they could do w/e they want with no consequences because the kids were soo poor they couldnt stand up for themselves (get there parents to sue the school), Not only that but being poor they didnt even realize how f'd up the situation was. For instance one of my teachers would also sneak peaks at girls cheasts in class. Everyone knew he was a perv, even the girls. But none of them could even think of telling there parents, parents calling there attorny(because they dont have one) and getting that teacher kicked out. In California (well the good areas) the teachers for the most part cant get away with stuff like that because the parents will actually do something.

And its not just the teachers that suck, its the whole curriculum and what it turns you into. I remember in one of the econ books it told us manufacturing jobs were the past and service jobs are the future. So if our parents get laid off, cant find work, because there manufacturing job is gone is okay because society is advancing since service jobs are the future. Idk how you can even say the schools are good.

Then the kids are just hood. I had a fight in my nice suburband high school every day and there were even days when a whole classroom would turn in a race fight. Whits v Arab v Blacks. Its ridiculous. That was high school yet it seemed like prison. There were days i was afried to get stabbed, thats how messed up it was. Never did i feel not safe in the california school i went too. Even tho half the kids werent even my same race.

Combine the last 3 paragraphs together and what to do you get. An environment that litterly turns you into a union slave because your soo dumbed down that you will never be able to make it big or just a hood rat.

I never realized how hick mi was until i left it. Its quite shocking talking to the people who still live there because you can just tell something is off about them. And its not just the nasily accent.

omg...are you for real? HAHAHAHA!

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Ryeno

I never realized how hick mi was until i left it. Its quite shocking talking to the people who still live there because you can just tell something is off about them. And its not just the nasily accent.

And yet you just can't fully leave. Every one of your posts are in the MI forum bashing it. LOL Just who is backwards and narrow minded again?

Just to address a couple issues I remember from your post.

Schools - Yes I have been to schools in Michigan and California, along with Texas, Maine and Mass. Best ones I have seen were in Michigan. You are basing your views on one school district (Troy) that frankly I wouldn't send my kids to.

95 degrees and 99% humidity? Where in Michigan do you have that? No place I have ever been. Our high this year was 88 and the humidity on days it wasn't raining (which was most of them) was in the 40 - 70% range.

hicks? Yep and we also have urban areas. Just like California. There are many places in California where it is rural and ag centered.

[Ryeno]

Originally Posted by Bydand

And yet you just can't fully leave. Every one of your posts are in the MI forum bashing it. LOL Just who is backwards and narrow minded again?

how is that narrow minded? Its called the truth. Its just sad to see people still believe mi is "normal"

Originally Posted by Bydand

Schools - Yes I have been to schools in Michigan and California, along with Texas, Maine and Mass. Best ones I have seen were in Michigan. You are basing your views on one school district (Troy) that frankly I wouldn't send my kids to.

Seeing a public school and attending one is another thing.

I've also gone to school in oak park. Even tho that city is considering more ghetto then troy the school material is essientally the same. Not only that but the people who attend those schools are equally of bad influence.

Originally Posted by Bydand

95 degrees and 99% humidity? Where in Michigan do you have that? No place I have ever been. Our high this year was 88 and the humidity on days it wasn't raining (which was most of them) was in the 40 - 70% range.

Detroit, I just checked the weather right now. It says 82% humidity. 40-70 is def not the average esp in summer. More like 80-100.

Originally Posted by Bydand

hicks? Yep and we also have urban areas. Just like California. There are many places in California where it is rural and ag centered.

yes except the good areas of california are good. The best suburb in michigan is arguably grosse point which is a far cray away from malibu or bel air.

In short mi has bad areas and worse area. atleast ca has bad areas and good areas.

[preferentialtreatment]

Ryeno do not pay attention to trolls,they love to misinform the public.The situation in Michigan is self explanatory.There is nothing to do here,but pack up and leave.I am not able to tell the destination,but it is a fact that Michigan has turned into a real hick state with plenty of hood rats.The misrepresentations will continue because it serves some people`s ego and interests here.It would take a good amount of money to drive around to see what some are specifying here.Then what? These people then reccomend you to leave and to not speak about Michigan.Very interesting.You are not bashing Michigan,but exposing it and i commend your evaluation.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Ryeno

how is that narrow minded? Its called the truth. Its just sad to see people still believe mi is "normal"

After living all over the Country I am glad that Michigan is not like a lot of other places.

Seeing a public school and attending one is another thing.

I've attended schools in the States I mentioned.

I've also gone to school in oak park. Even tho that city is considering more ghetto then troy the school material is essientally the same. Not only that but the people who attend those schools are equally of bad influence.

Lets see you attend one school that is a craphole, then use as a comparison another one that you yourself say is considered worse... how does that make a bit of sense?

Detroit, I just checked the weather right now. It says 82% humidity. 40-70 is def not the average esp in summer. More like 80-100.

It's 95 with 99% humidity right now in Detroit? Damn, big temp difference from the SE corner to anyplace else right now.
If you are going to argue a point, at least be sure you make a tiny bit of sense. You claimed that Michigan has 95 degrees and 99% humidity and make it sound like it happens all the time during the Summer, then when I ask where that would be you answer with Detroit right now (even though the humidity is 82% and not 99% like you claimed it would be). Actually it is 55 degrees and 47% humidity right now in Detroit, so at least use accurate data to refute a point.

yes except the good areas of california are good. The best suburb in michigan is arguably grosse point which is a far cray away from malibu or bel air.

You equate overpriced self centered suburbs as being the "good" areas of a State? Now I see why we are are such opposite sides of this argument. Those are the worst parts in my opinion. Give me room to move about without waiting in traffic, having to deal with stupidity on a daily basis, and those are the good areas.

In short mi has bad areas and worse area. atleast ca has bad areas and good areas.

Michigan has some darn nice places as well. Maybe not ini the tiny little world YOU equate as being Michigan, but hey, at least you are the heck out of State so we don't have to hear you cry like a baby about it... oh wait, yes we do, because you keep showing up on the Michigan Forum. Guess it really is hard for you to leave the area totally.

[gwinn_raptor]

this has got to be one of the dumbest arguments i have ever read.........this kid is hilarious!!!!
Let's say Michigan is overrun with "Hicks"
How many people in California....ie Mailibu, Belair, Orage County would know how to survive without power, grocery stores, transportation? Would they be able to go out and plant a decent garden to feed their family from, go hunting for food for the dinner table, cut wood to burn for heat..........i think you know the answer too.

Maybe Michigan folks are hicks, but i tell you what.......I would rather be considered a hick that a snob a$$, stuck up, punk from malibu living off my daddy's money.

[Bydand]

I have to ask a question here. Why is it that those whose viewpoint is negative and in the toilet think that they are the only ones who are "right" and everybody who holds a different view of a different part of the State is labeled as "an Ostrich, Troll, Bully, naive, retarded, stupid, misleading, misinformed," and any number of other slams? I guess it really is a matter of Misery loving company. You have to make the entire state out to be the worse place on Earth and drag everybody down to your level in order to make yourselves feel good about the day. I truly do feel sad for those who do that, it must be a miserable, cold existence.

Having a viewpoint that this is a beautiful State that has a good educational system and can provide a very decent living IS a valid stand and viewpoint. All it takes is the right set of job skills, living in an area you love, and living within your means. Do I think the entire state is hunky-dory? NO, you would have to be foolish to think the entire state is doing well right now, but after traveling and living elsewhere within the last 15 months, I can tell you there are places that are worse. I never say the entire State is doing good, I say that I am doing good and that this area isn't as bad as others. You can cry all you want, and call me anything you want, because really it doesn't matter. Don't know you, don't care what you think. Just trying to set the record straight when somebody asks a question and all the "doom and Gloom" crowd makes their posts that the entire State is a garbage dump. It isn't plain and simple, Maybe your piece of it is, but don't try to make mine out to be. Not my fault you thought the Union was going to keep being the free ride for ****-poor work habits, not my fault you didn't look ahead and get the proper training for a job that would always be in demand no matter where you were or what the economy was doing. Not my fault there was no proper planning for the future and overextended yourself. Why drag others down into your hole when they DID those things.

I've lived all over, I've lived in big cities from Detroit to Dallas, TX, and small communities from Caribou, ME to McBain, MI and plenty of places in between. I left Michigan back in 1987 and thought seeing the "Welcome to Michigan" sign in my rear view mirror was the best sight I ever saw. I moved all over looking for a place that fit all my needs and later my families needs, guess what ---- Yep, Michigan fit those needs and we worked hard to get back here several years ago (had to leave for a bit for sick parents in Maine a few years ago) and can tell you there are places that are worse, and not anyplace I ever lived that was better.

So simple question: Why is the negative viewpoint the only "right" one and all others called names and denied as being valid?

[enigmaingr]

Originally Posted by Bydand

So simple question: Why is the negative viewpoint the only "right" one and all others called names and denied as being valid?

*Sigh* It seems as though many on here who love to degrade Michigan the most do so out of their hatred for Michigan instead of their love for wherever they are at.

I suspect that this guy who claims to have lived in Troy and now lives in CA is just like one of the thousands of younger people who move to LA/SF/NYC/MIA/ect. thinking that they have "arrived". Most natives laugh at these sorts.

It's like they say in the military: the most exciting place is where you're about to go, the best place was where you were at. Some people are never happy right where they are.