Any one having trouble selling there home?

[TH777]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Bob

So your saying that the house I bought for $450K (loan = $300K) and have now paid off completely in 7 years by putting everyhthing into it and is now worth ~$800K is somehow stupid and I have ripped myself off?

So now I own my own home and only have to pay for maintenance and that is somehow bad?

And when I move to the US later in the year and rent this house out for $700 a week (yes a week, not a month - Sydney prices are crazy) it will pay for buying a house in the US without me having to spend a cent of my wages.

So I will then own TWO houses, and so by your standards, I must be TWICE as poor.

Guess my calculator works differently in the Australia than in US.

Not at all... Dont you read my post?? I clearly stated that if you can pay CASH for a house then it's not a bad idea.

What you describe is essentially paying Cash for a house since it only took you (an amazing) 7 years to pay for a 400,000 house. Hard to believe anyone could do this but of course rich people can do it. I'm talking about the average American buying a house who makes about $30,000 a year or less.

[TH777]

Allow me to clairfy the numbers of Owning vs Renting

Renting =

Rent payment of 900 a month + utility bills for a small condo 100 a month = paying out 1000 a month or $12,000 a year for a place to live if you rent.


Buying a 200,000 house =

Mortgage payment ----- 1100 a month
Taxes of 2000 a year so ---- 167 a month
Insurance of 1000 year so ----- 84 a month
Maintenance of at least 1000 a year so ---- 84 a month
FULL Utility bills for a house = Sewer/water 10, garbage collection 10, pest control 35, power 150 , cable x 2 rooms 90, internet 45, phone 25 ----- 365 a month utilities.

Payout to buy a 200,000 house = 1800 a month or ------21,600 a year out the door.

[sikes0000]

Originally Posted by TH777

Allow me to clairfy the numbers of Owning vs Renting

Renting =

Rent payment of 900 a month + utility bills for a small condo 100 a month = paying out 1000 a month or $12,000 a year for a place to live if you rent.


Buying a 200,000 house =

Mortgage payment ----- 1100 a month
Taxes of 2000 a year so ---- 167 a month
Insurance of 1000 year so ----- 84 a month
Maintenance of at least 1000 a year so ---- 84 a month
FULL Utility bills for a house = Sewer/water 10, garbage collection 10, pest control 35, power 150 , cable x 2 rooms 90, internet 45, phone 25 ----- 365 a month utilities.

Payout to buy a 200,000 house = 1800 a month or ------21,600 a year out the door.

A lot of people never look at the numbers this way. Unfortunately they look at buying a house as an investment (sometimes true) so renting equals throwing money away. If they actually saw how much money they could be investing elsewhere by renting maybe they would change their tune. Although to be honest if I could of bought a house back in 2000 just to sell it in 05 I would have But that was one heck of a bubble.

Everybody always wants to see data and proof to back up that renting is better. I want to see the data that shows how I can buy a home with a 200k mortgage and not be throwing money away vs renting an equivalent space in the same area. And please use examples because when I add in taxes, maintenance and all the other goodies I suddenly can't afford to make my mortgage payments for something equivalent.

[Bydand]

You are still just tossing random numbers out there without backing. Where do you find the average house price is $200,000? From what I have been seeing, you can get a newer 3 bed 2 bath on an acre or two for around $125,000 now. Pest control $35 a month - what kind of rat hole are you buying for your 200K?

My cable (2 rooms), phone, and broadband internet is a bundle for $104 a month, much cheaper than your guess. Plus I've never seen a rental that includes phone, cable, or internet either so you have to include those into your rental figures as well. That makes those numbers a wash - the same for both renting and owning.

I have NEVER paid electric bills higher than $70 a month in a house with 2 adults and 4 kids, electric cloths dryer included in that figure. Your guess of $150 is WAY high. For electric bills it is a 50/50 chance that it might be included in rent. Some places it is some it is not.

Your numbers for owning are not even close to reality in most cases. Couple that with leaving some charges out of the rental figures and it is very clear you are just grabbing numbers at random to prove your stand. It doesn't hold up to the reality of own vs rent in 90% of the cases. Plus when you are done paying for the house, in 10 years or 30 years, you are done paying for it, if you rent for 10 to 30 years at the end of that time, guess what... right, you still are paying to live in a house. Plus, a house payment is generally a fixed amount (Unless you get one of those asinine ARM loans) for the term of the loan. Rentals are not, they WILL go up, maybe not every year, but every other year at the least you will pay more for the same place, or you will have to find a smaller place for the same payment.

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by TH777

Allow me to clairfy the numbers of Owning vs Renting

Renting =

Rent payment of 900 a month + utility bills for a small condo 100 a month = paying out 1000 a month or $12,000 a year for a place to live if you rent.


Buying a 200,000 house =

Mortgage payment ----- 1100 a month
Taxes of 2000 a year so ---- 167 a month
Insurance of 1000 year so ----- 84 a month
Maintenance of at least 1000 a year so ---- 84 a month
FULL Utility bills for a house = Sewer/water 10, garbage collection 10, pest control 35, power 150 , cable x 2 rooms 90, internet 45, phone 25 ----- 365 a month utilities.

Payout to buy a 200,000 house = 1800 a month or ------21,600 a year out the door.

Cut out the utility bills from all that, they are superfluous and irrelevant. Just compare the rent payment vs. mortgage payment + taxes and insurance. Renting still comes out ahead without even calculating any other stuff, though it's much closer. Also you can get a house for a lot less than 200K, especially in MI right now. Nonetheless, our house was only about 125K and our mortgage plus taxes and insurance is about $1100 a month. Where we live, we could rent a house for considerably less.

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by Bydand

I have NEVER paid electric bills higher than $70 a month in a house with 2 adults and 4 kids, electric cloths dryer included in that figure. Your guess of $150 is WAY high. For electric bills it is a 50/50 chance that it might be included in rent. Some places it is some it is not.

Can you tell me how you've managed such low electric bills, especially in MI? Our bill for February was $322, and that's keeping the temp set at 68 during the day and 60 at night. I have *never* had an electric bill as low as $70, not even during one of those few months of the year when we didn't run heat or A/C and we were renting a 1000 sq ft house with brand new windows.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

Can you tell me how you've managed such low electric bills, especially in MI? Our bill for February was $322, and that's keeping the temp set at 68 during the day and 60 at night. I have *never* had an electric bill as low as $70, not even during one of those few months of the year when we didn't run heat or A/C and we were renting a 1000 sq ft house with brand new windows.

Holy crap! $322? Do you have electric heat? If so, there is your answer right there. I wouldn't have electric heat, I do have an electric dryer and when we had a rental house in the Ludington area, we never paid over $70 a month, usually right around $55-60. Depends on where you are as well. Great Lakes Energy isn't as expensive as most of the ones serving the SE corner. Consumers Energy over in the Ludington area isn't that bad either. The SOO used to have the darn cheapest power rates I had ever seen, but I have been away from that area for some time now, so I couldn't really say for there. The way you say you turn down the heat to 60 at night and 68 during the day I am betting the cause is electric heat.

[Calcbunny]

Originally Posted by TurboState

Exactly! What made matters worse is Americans in their infinite wisdom decided to buy houses they can't afford using loans they can't pay back. Interest only loans floating on appreciation values are what drove the market for 5 years. Those loans are dead, sub-prime lenders are shut down, and home values plummeted. Now those same people are in foreclosure, or will be soon.

$300,000-$500,000 for a middle class home is LUDICROUS! A good median price for a family home for a couple making about $60,000 a year is $150,000.00-$180,000.00 range.

I always wondered who is buying these 300-500K houses. My wife and I would drive around shaking our heads, thinking "What do these people do for livings?!?!". The answer is simple, they are normal people with normal jobs, living in houses they can't afford.

Is there any doubt we are heading for a huge disaster in the housing market and economy?

Just because someone lives in an expensive home does not mean they can't afford it. My husband and I bought a home in NJ in 1996 for $180,000, we sold it in 2006 for $450,000. We had a lot to put down on a new home, and Atlanta taxes are 1/3 of what NJ taxes were. So now we live in a $500,000+ home and our mortgage is only $2000. And it is a 30 yr fixed rate,

Of course now we may be moving to Michigan...so it appears to be a buyers market.

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Holy crap! $322? Do you have electric heat? If so, there is your answer right there. I wouldn't have electric heat, I do have an electric dryer and when we had a rental house in the Ludington area, we never paid over $70 a month, usually right around $55-60. Depends on where you are as well. Great Lakes Energy isn't as expensive as most of the ones serving the SE corner. Consumers Energy over in the Ludington area isn't that bad either. The SOO used to have the darn cheapest power rates I had ever seen, but I have been away from that area for some time now, so I couldn't really say for there. The way you say you turn down the heat to 60 at night and 68 during the day I am betting the cause is electric heat.

Nope, it's gas heat, eastern part of the state (Bay City/Midland area) from Consumers. Everyone we know around here has comparable heating bills...

[Bydand]

Honestly, if it were that high for me with gas heat, I would contact the power company and have them do an energy audit. Something is eating a LOT of juice, more than it should I am willing to bet. I am an Electrician and get calls like this every once in awhile.

Couple quick questions. Do you have a freezer that is in a cold location? If in a cold location some freezers will run almost constant and really drive up electrical usage in the winter months.

How old is your refrigerator? If it is older, have an appliance person check it out. The compressor may be working too hard now and that will skyrocket electrical usage.

Electric Hot Water heater? How old if you do? These can be killers as well.

Just a few things to start looking at. $322 is way too high from what you are saying.