Is life better in the UP or LP? (Marquette: jobs, retire)

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

Geez- relax people. Jeeg was just pointing out that when you make a statement like:



that you should qualify it. I live in the UP and could walk to a great hospital. I know people with a disabled child that has adequate care (with periodic trips downstate).

The rest of this statement, however, is an issue with which I am grappling:



I struggle because I come from a culture in which the world is your oyster. Highly educated, highly mobile... I know what else is out there. I've experienced in first hand. It's not malls or professional sports or that trivial stuff, but the possibility of waking up every morning and doing something you really love for a living - something that could make a difference in the world. I have a friend who's almost 50 years old and just moved away from the UP for the first time. He was amazed at what it was like to actually like his job and contribute something to society. On the other hand, I know many people who simply love being here and are willing to do whatever they have to to survive.

I don't know if I'm one of those people. I don't know if I want my children to be either.

There seems to be a general aspiration to mediocrity. Living a life of quasi-retirement is the status quo. There's no truly great schools. There's few people doing truly great and interesting things to serve as inspirational models. Great UP sports teams tend to get trounced downstate. It's just the reality of an isolated, rural area. So long as things stay insular, it works. But I don't know if I want my children to go to the only school available in Marquette where girls frequently get pregnant, homosexuals are treated like pariahs, and many women aspire to open yet another hair salon. As great as Marquette can be, there's a cultural undercurrent to this city I'm not sure I like.

I was exposed to people from all over the world in my high school, here - even at the universities - you're pretty much surrounded by Yoopers. Would that be the most enriching environment for my child? I don't know. I didn't find it to be.

I have friends here in Marquette , that were born and razed. Grew up , moved away, to see the world ( as everyone should do ) , then came back , settled down , and , started a business , are growing their Children , and enjoying the place with a renewed appreciation. The lack of crime , racial problems , drugs , mean a lot , when thinking about a family. Big city schools , and , lifestyles , can be more a problem than the limited exposure issues in Marquette.
I grew up in a small Midwest , rural place , couldn't wait to get out , glad I did. You must see the world around us, on a larger scale , in order to form a comparison, a choice , and a direction you want to go in life.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Torrid

Oh wow. That's not bad at all. We're gonna have to try it now. That's a lot cheaper than Laniappe (1 N or 2?? lol) and I wasn't too crazy about their food. Of course, I'm not much for seafood anywho. Cool atmosphere though. Thanx for the info!!

Laniappe is a surprising attempt at Louisianan food ,....in the far north. I take my hat off to them ! Its not as good , as the real thing , but then , one must get down and dirty in Bayou country to do it. I dine there about once a month.

[jeeg]

Okay, now we have two new places to eat the wife and I have to try. Thank you

[jeeg]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

There seems to be a general aspiration to mediocrity. Living a life of quasi-retirement is the status quo. There's no truly great schools. There's few people doing truly great and interesting things to serve as inspirational models. Great UP sports teams tend to get trounced downstate. It's just the reality of an isolated, rural area. So long as things stay insular, it works. But I don't know if I want my children to go to the only school available in Marquette where girls frequently get pregnant, homosexuals are treated like pariahs, and many women aspire to open yet another hair salon. As great as Marquette can be, there's a cultural undercurrent to this city I'm not sure I like.

I was exposed to people from all over the world in my high school, here - even at the universities - you're pretty much surrounded by Yoopers. Would that be the most enriching environment for my child? I don't know. I didn't find it to be.

Being the parents to young kids, and having lived/travelled all over the U.S. before settling here, this is something we've discussed as well. It is indeed very isolated up here.
We've decided that for now we'll just continue living beneath our means so we can take as many short vacations we can a year (for exposure to other things, ways of life), and in about 8 years we'll re-evaluate what is best for our family then (kids are 3 1/2 and 1 1/2).
We're still stuck on the schooling aspect. Leaning towards homeschooling with regular interactions in the community through various childrens programs (and possibly a homeschooling group). Still considering our options tho.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by darstar

I have friends here in Marquette , that were born and razed. Grew up , moved away, to see the world ( as everyone should do ) , then came back , settled down , and , started a business , are growing their Children , and enjoying the place with a renewed appreciation. The lack of crime , racial problems , drugs , mean a lot , when thinking about a family. Big city schools , and , lifestyles , can be more a problem than the limited exposure issues in Marquette.
I grew up in a small Midwest , rural place , couldn't wait to get out , glad I did. You must see the world around us, on a larger scale , in order to form a comparison, a choice , and a direction you want to go in life.

I lived 18 years on a very small resort town , in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. It was a near perfect place , it was remote. The big money came from the Summer people , that was the way of life , yet , the school system was top notch , for a small town. I see Marquette as a sort of like kind , in the north. Granted ,Marquette is a lot bigger , and , with more social problems , but , from what I have seen , so , far , it looks like a great place to raze a family. , far , from the ills of the crazy outside world.
Maybe , its such , that some folks expect too much from the rural balance. Maybe they SHOULD leave , for the big city......someday , they will be back , when they are older.

[Bluefly]

Well, Darstar, I think your upbringing in a rural environment has conditioned you to value rural experiences. You assume everyone will be back after they see the bright lights / big city, but many retirees are moving to urban centers - buying condos and lofts and foregoing the conventional withdrawal from society and instead engaging with it.

I was raised in a very wealthy suburban environment. I used to work in one of the most vibrant cities in the country, where people have fascinating careers that simply do not exist elsewhere. Living here is hard on people like me. It's not just about going to see what's out there, then settling into the quiet life.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

Well, Darstar, I think your upbringing in a rural environment has conditioned you to value rural experiences. You assume everyone will be back after they see the bright lights / big city, but many retirees are moving to urban centers - buying condos and lofts and foregoing the conventional withdrawal from society and instead engaging with it.

I was raised in a very wealthy suburban environment. I used to work in one of the most vibrant cities in the country, where people have fascinating careers that simply do not exist elsewhere. Living here is hard on people like me. It's not just about going to see what's out there, then settling into the quiet life.

You have a good point. People left the " neighborhoods " for the Suburbs , to raze a family , to escape the ills of the City. Now , after the children are gone , some , are moving back to the City. Also , the commute has become a problem , with high energy prices. However , some can not afford the move to the city , where housing prices have skyrocketed. Some , are looking for a return to their rural upbringing , as a cost cutting measure , in retirement.
Those that were born , and bred in the inter City , often find that nothing else measures up. I can understand that. I have friends that are doing just that. Its not for me , but , like you said , I could be more conditioned. I hated the vast corn fields of my native Iowa , and the narrow thinking that went with it. I left, went to the big city to find success.I went to a lot of resort places , like Florida , mountains , lake properties ,Alaska,etc. Was fun , and allowed me to create, but , now , maybe I am just tired , as well as retired , so , I crossed off the last place on my list , the UP. I know there will be moments when , the lack of worldly culture , will surface . We will see.....

[crazyme4878]

Wow, I commented on this thread two months ago--didn't realize it was still going. Defending small towns and rural areas is starting to become a passion of mine! For the most part, people who love large urban areas will not like rural areas, and vice versa. And for either camp, there is plenty to support their dislike of the other area. There is really no reason to argue back and forth unless there is someone on the fence and they want to discuss the pros and cons. Yet, it seems that over and over, that is exactly what happens on many threads here (but it does make for interesting reading!) Hopefully, interested parties can still take infomation away from it, but too many times we rely on generalizations.

As for schools, I think you probably have about the same luck finding a bad one in the city or country. Unfortunately, you have less choices for transfers in the country. BUT, it is very easy for parental and whole community involvement in the schools and there usually is. And just because a high school has 400 students, doesn't mean it does not give quality education. If you get in the right areas, college professors will even come teach at the high school level because they want to live in a beautiful area! (I had two in my HS, and I don't even live in a paradise!)

I'm in a larger town now (larger for me), and I'm glad that my boys can experience a great diversity (all colors, several different languages and accents), but I don't want to raise them here. I want a small town because everyone knows everyone else. "Its takes a community to raise a child." and that is easier for us in a small town. Plus, we want to hear the gossip--so we can keep track of our sons when they get older.

I have heard good things about the schools in Negaunee, Ishpeming and Marquette.

[RetiredNomads]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Wow, we have another pompous ass on our hands it looks like.

I will say it for myself because it is appropriate. GROW UP!

Don't be too hard on Jeeb, I think she is on the defense.
Again this is my opinion but to tell another adult to grow up during an opinionated discussion is rather counter productive. Alas, this is just the internet, not a back yard brawl.

Read what I wrote, I base my experiences on my own.

I realize that it may be different for other families with less or no children at all. My opinion is based on the 5 1/2 years I've lived here, my age, family size, interests and experience.
Like I said, we travel to Marquette quite often for appointments, and the occasional retreat to do some shopping. Plus, my son was in varsity football, so we've been to several towns along the way. Does that make me an expert, no. But it does give me a feel of certain places in the area.

Note: in all my posts I make reference to my experience by using the words "I", "I've", "we", "us", as in me and my family.

By the way, did you go to NMU? My son is going to start there next year, he's doing his first year at community. He can't wait to get to the university, he loves Marquette and all it offers. It's a great little college town.

[Cliffie]

People moving down to my area (Livignston County) from the UP say they're overwhelmed by how many more jobs we have here, which is utterly scary to me. There is a lot more stuff down here that the UP doesn't have -- nightlife, large cities and everything they offer, better services of all kinds. But the UP wins hands down in other ways -- the scenery ranges from pretty to staggering, there's a ton more elbow room, and if you like hunting or shoveling snow it's Paradise.