[Alt Dach]

Nobody in their right mind would argue U-M's national (and international) reputation, nor the notion that along with Cal and UVa, it is part of the trio of most respected state universities in America.

ALmost anyone in academia ,in their right mind or not, would put WI,UCLA,
IL,MN,Texas,PennSt.Washington-off the top of my head- ahead of UVa as
a state university.But unlike such nonsense as US News & WR they wouldn't consider the undergrad time had by Buff and Buffy as a prime criteria.

[TheProf]

I agree with the comments above and would say to Ann Arbor: if percentage of out-of-state residents = prestige, then Berkeley, UCLA and U.IL would be comparable to Western Michigan U.

[nessatar]

I agree that Michigan is fortunate to have so many great schools, especially MSU and UM. I am MSU alum and had many many great profs. There is certainly a lot of research money there as well if you involved in the sciences. Liberal arts... not so much. It's really not an "ag school" anymore either. Yes, it has some good programs, but demand for those programs is very low and the enrollment gets smaller and smaller, unfortunately.

I'm applying to grad schools in the Chicago area, but if I were to apply in MI and had to choose between MSU and UM, I would choose UM hands down. It wouldn't even be a choice. Again, though, I am in the liberal arts. If I were in a different field, I might choose differently. MSU has a prettier campus (imo), though, thanks to its ag roots.

Amongst the people I know, the rivalry has more to do with sports than academics. And I'm loyal enough to always root for the Spartans, even when we don't have a snowballs chance in you-know-where.

[Ann_Arbor]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I agree with the comments above and would say to Ann Arbor: if percentage of out-of-state residents = prestige, then Berkeley, UCLA and U.IL would be comparable to Western Michigan U.

edsg25, post #28, made a good comment on why some states with a large population (California and Illinois) have huge in-state percentages- state by state you can't look to far into that statistic, but school by school (in one state) it is fair. If you want to contest that, do it with him and not me.

--
I was just responding to your earlier comment:

"Fact is, Western, though a nice school, is not really close to being on MSU's level, grad OR undergrad. As for undergrad, alone, it lacks the facilities, quality of profs, quality of students (including geographically outside the state), quality and breadth of programs, or cultural faculties, history/tradition, name recognition, and on and on... of MSU. MSU is a national/international institution."

Did I read that wrong?

[TheProf]

^No, you didn't read it entirely wrong Ann Arbor, but there's one underlying element that I guess I failed to convey: MSU's out-of-state students: a) are obviously going to be necessarily greater in number than WMU's b/c MSU is a bigger school and, b) more importantly, by breadth I mean more diverse inside/and outside the state -- in-state, I know MSU draws considerably more kids from super wealthy families than does WMU and, while WMU's out/state kids are probably mainly, if not almost entirely, from just across Michigan's borders, MSU's are often from states far from Michigan; and there's an international contingent in East Lansing that WMU can't even dream about.... MSU's students, as a group, are more stimulated and stimulatING than WMU's and, because of this, MSU students are far more mobile after graduation; they attend grad schools in greater %s than WMU's and often (to Michigan's peril) move away, often far away, as in all over the world (California, btw, has the 3rd highest alumni group outside of Michigan and Illinois (New York's up there, too) ...

You'd be hard pressed, Ann Arbor, to dispute this.

[TheProf]

I'm sure Western, nice college though it is, would not have a program like One Book or even the Residential College in Arts and Humanities (RCAH), which is geared to Undergrads, not grads and research. One Book, One Community actually, is especially aimed at small group Freshman seminars. It's stuff like this that separates MSU from WMU and makes MSU and U-M more similar, Ann Arbor... BTW, since One Book, One Community is a community (group book reading/lectures) activity as well as and MSU activity, I'd think this should be a cultural factor that would make East Lansing competitive with Ann Arbor (among many other EL attributes) viz the today's new thread... Check out the below:


'Lost Boys' tale of joy, pain moves freshmen | lansingstatejournal.com | Lansing State Journal

[Ann_Arbor]

You make some good points

--
I know the percentage of out-of-state and foreign students at Western and MSU are roughly the same while Michigan has significantly more (anyone can find those numbers). This probably isn't a great indicator for success at either school- rich kids from California and New York aren't going make either Michigan or MSU student body that much more diverse. Reversely, grads from both those schools are going to flock to those states because they have livable/exciting cities with jobs. There should be no reason why a college grad from any in-state school can't go to those places. Someone told me, "If you can get a job in Michigan, you can get a job anywhere", definitely honest in contemporary Michigan.

Each school is going to have its pride and supporters, that's good, it doesn't really affect me. Further, as a resident of this state and a proponent of public schools, I want to see them all succeed.

However, I'm sick of hearing negative stories come out of certain campuses, as I'm sure you and many others are, that include binge drinking, obsessive partying and rioting. I hope this is just attributed to having a huge, suburban-style apartment complexes that incubate those mass activities. That hurts the reputation of not only those schools, but the whole state.

[TheProf]

^ Yes, I hate the binge drinking and rioting. As an MSU alum, it's embarassing and dangerous. It doesn't matter where it happens. MSU has a bad party school rep, much of it deserved. But when a U-M student died of alcohol poisoning a few years back and a young woman got drunk and fell to her death out an Ann Arbor apt window, I felt terrible. Young people going to leading colleges should not be putting their lives in danger over some foolishness like drinking. A young man got his eye put out after being hit by pepper spray (or rubber bullets, I forget which) after U. of Arizona students rioted after they won the basketball NCAA championship a few years back... Awful, awful, awful!!!! MSU, esp, really needs to address this and, for my money, stupid, useless activities like Cedar Fest would be history and those dumpy, student ghetto apts where these sports riots emanate from would meet the wrecking ball...

... I know current Spartans hate me for saying this, but this stuff damages the rep of an otherwise great school imho...

[nessatar]

Originally Posted by TheProf

^ Yes, I hate the binge drinking and rioting. As an MSU alum, it's embarassing and dangerous. It doesn't matter where it happens. MSU has a bad party school rep, much of it deserved. But when a U-M student died of alcohol poisoning a few years back and a young woman got drunk and fell to her death out an Ann Arbor apt window, I felt terrible. Young people going to leading colleges should not be putting their lives in danger over some foolishness like drinking. A young man got his eye put out after being hit by pepper spray (or rubber bullets, I forget which) after U. of Arizona students rioted after they won the basketball NCAA championship a few years back... Awful, awful, awful!!!! MSU, esp, really needs to address this and, for my money, stupid, useless activities like Cedar Fest would be history and those dumpy, student ghetto apts where these sports riots emanate from would meet the wrecking ball...

... I know current Spartans hate me for saying this, but this stuff damages the rep of an otherwise great school imho...

I, for one, don't resent you for saying so and very much agree with you. I would much prefer that my alma matter be known for its academics and not its party atmosphere. I am all for young adults having a good time. Life can't be all work and no play. But a good number of people to it to very extreme levels...

[Ann_Arbor]

^^, ^

Yea, it happens everywhere and it sucks- smart people will look at smart people and not a few bad-apples that bring down a good school's rep..