[Kingsnkali]

I wonder how many thousands of Baby Boomer future retirees have crossed off Michigan from their lists of possible destinations because of Michigan property taxes?

It really is sad too. Michigan has alot to offer us and we have alot to offer Michigan.

Us younger retirees will be bringing in lots of money to small communities. We can't do that in Michigan. I can't afford the property taxes. They are double what I am paying in California for the same or less house.

Does Michigan even realize the number of service jobs we will create when we move into these small towns? Many of these towns are DYING. Us retirees would be like year-round tourists. $$$$

We ARE the jobs of the future for small towns. Remodeling. Painting. Plumbing. Home improvement. Shoping. Entertainment. Fishing. Hunting.

All we do is spend money.

We can't do that when Michigan kills us on property taxes.

[John1960]

The high property taxes in Michigan are making people I know leave by the thousands to places like Tennessee where property taxes are cheap. My 4 bedroom and two bathroom with one acre is only 900.00 a whole year in the City Of Cookeville Tennessee compared to my old house in Ypsilanti Michigan that close to 5000 a year with only on a lot and smaller house. People are tired of paying high property taxes and living in a frozen hell in the winter.

John

[Kingsnkali]

I really don't have a clue on why Michigan absolutely nails people on property taxes. I know the budget is bad there. I know jobs are leaving. It just seems like Michigan is doing the opposite of what should be done to stabilize the flight out of the state.

Retirees from out of state provide jobs and money. Jobs pay taxes. Young families would be able to stay in small-town Michigan. There would be jobs there. It's called the service economy. The retirees just want a peaceful place to spend their retirements. We want recreation. Low crime. And we won't tax the system with costs. Most of us will have full medical coverage and solid monthly incomes. We are green and clean too. No smokestacks.

That struggling small town or regional medical center. Jobs. That mom and pop resort/bait shop/restaurant/furniture store/car dealer/coffee shop/main street hardware store etc. More jobs. Year round too. We are the diversified economy. Recession proof too.

All this talk about Michigan spending money on education... That's wonderful. You are educating 10's of thousands with a quality education so they can LEAVE and help other states economies. It's absurd. You are discouraging any in-migration because of the uncompetitive tax system and cost structure. It's like a Liberal Utopia that's in a death spiral. No jobs. Boarded up factories. The evil capitalists have left. You won!

[TurboState]

I will tell you one of the reasons Michigan Property Tax is outrageous... We have a hold-harmless system that takes money from every community and pushes that money to the city of Detroit. Basically, a vast majority of your property taxes are shifted down to poor communities. Your local school only gets a tiny portion, this is why Schools are forced to pass local mileages for direct funding.

The City of Detroit puts a *HUGE* strain on every resident in Michigan. Many other states don't have giant minority slums with out of work people to support, and thus, their property taxes are low. I pay over $3500.00 a year in property taxes on my main house. My friend has nearly an identical sized home in Kentucky, and pays less than $800 a year. Frankly, I am really annoyed with these inflated taxes but what can you do?

I will say though, anytime we do major home improvements, we don't get building permits. The major reason they want permits is so they can raise the assessment on your home! A few years ago we got a Garage built and we got a permit for that. Within 2 days of it being built, the tax assessor was out, and we got hit for another $700 a year in Taxes!!!! From that point forward, we've never gotten a single building permit, and never will!

[Splinter]

I'm considering accepting a job offer in Monroe, MI and am trying to decide whether to live in southeastern MI or just across the line in Ohio. Which would be cheaper, tax wise???

[Kingsnkali]

TurboState,

That is what I figured too. Just throwing money down a rat hole. Detroit is a big parasite and now host Michigan is in trouble too. The only large cities that see a return of numbers of middle class are cities surrounded by thriving suburbs with solid job growth. These suburbs sport rising home values because demand outstrips supply. This starts the process of urban gentrification.

The Detroit area seems to be just the opposite. The rotten core is now spreading to the suburbs. An economic downturn during a long-in-the-tooth nationwide boom.

I can't imagine how bad Michigan could get in a nationwide recession. Scary.

I love the fishing and the lakes. It's not enough to get me to retire in Michigan. Like you say, the cost differential is HUGE compared to the mid south states. And they have much better weather. I don't mind income taxes. They hit everyone. It's the property taxes that discourage people from moving to Michigan or starting a business. I looked and no way would I spend close to $600 a month for property taxes as a retiree. Not in a million years. I would be priced out of the home in 5 years unless real estate crashed. Sounds like a lose-lose to me.

[tuebor]

Kingsnkali, you've pitted retirees against education. If I have to choose between luring a few selfish old people to the state and giving our kids the education they need for this economy, I choose the latter.

Lower taxes might attract more retirees, but better schools attract young working families, and they are far more beneficial to the economy than retirees. (I use an economic argument because evidently a moral argument about our responsibilities to our children will fall on deaf ears.)

There is a risk that the kids we educate will take the education we've given them and leave the state, but that's a risk we have to take. What is the alternative? If we do not give them an education that prepares them for the "new economy"--i.e., a rigorous k-12 program followed by access to affordable high-quality postsecondary education--most will still have to leave the state even sooner, because the "old economy" jobs that don't require more than a HS diploma are disappearing.

Furthermore, the money that comes into this state from out-of-state students and research grants, and the money that STAYS in the state from in-state students going to college here instead of elsewhere, is far more significant than the amount that would be generated by getting a few more retirees through lower taxes. And an educated workforce and research universities are a draw to high-tech employers--the kind we need if we want our kids to be able to stay after they've completed their education.

But I'm not convinced we really DO need to pit retirees against education. We just need to attract RICHER retirees. And we do. Our northern coastlines have lots of retirees, even all the way up to Copper Harbor, because the natural features are unique and the quality of life is high, and these retirees are willing and able to pay a premium for it.

For those who can't afford to retire on the coast, there are cheaper places inland. If you have a decent retirement package, you can afford to retire somewhere in Michigan. If you'd rather go someplace even cheaper, or you can't handle the weather, then I say good bye and good luck. And if you think you have a right to short-change the children of the state (not to mention adult learners who need retraining) just because your kids are all grown, I say good riddance.

(As for Detroit, I don't know whether it's a net loss or not. It has concentrated poverty, but it also has industries that generate revenue.)

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Kingsnkali

TurboState,

I love the fishing and the lakes. It's not enough to get me to retire in Michigan. Like you say, the cost differential is HUGE compared to the mid south states. And they have much better weather. I don't mind income taxes. They hit everyone. It's the property taxes that discourage people from moving to Michigan or starting a business. I looked and no way would I spend close to $600 a month for property taxes as a retiree. Not in a million years. I would be priced out of the home in 5 years unless real estate crashed. Sounds like a lose-lose to me.

Where are you looking that you'd be paying $600/month in property taxes? In the Grand Rapids metro area, millages range from about 24 mills to about 38 or 39 mills at the highest. I would say that's probably representative of much of Michigan, and that equates to about $3000/year on a $200,000 home (which you can actually find in Michigan). Are you talking "non-homestead" rates, for a second home? They could probably stand to be lowered to encourage more vacation home investors.

Comparing Michigan to the low tax, race to the bottom Southern states is not apples-to-apples. The low property tax environment in Georgia is gutting their educational system, and creating a "New Detroit" in Atlanta. But hey, why should retirees care about education or other services.

The only thing sustaining these low taxes is growth itself, period. Just wait until the tide shifts when demographics shift (like when Boomers start moving into nursing care). Toyota just leaked that they are now paying more for labor costs than their U.S. counterparts, and it is forecast to get worse for them. Nissan's in the same boat. Guess what happens when the new economic fuel that the "new South" is running on begins to dry up? What happens when all those retiree condo units start flooding the market? We ain't see nothing yet as far as housing bubbles go.

Or here's a better question: What happens when another Hurricane Katrina hits the gulf states and the Carolinas in ten years when there are more people there? (because it's a matter of when it will hit, not if) Who will pay for the $50 - $100 Billion in damages?

I'll be watching the crash from my comfy confines in Michigan watching the beautiful snow float to the ground. And people think they are immune from global forces, even in the South. Ha!

They don't allow online links here (would someone please explain that?). Just go to google, type in "toyota labor costs", and click the "news" button above the search bar.

[Milabs]

I am in SW Mi and our taxes are dirt cheap...less than 1k a yr. It's common knowledge that the college towns will be more pricey when it comes to taxes but the whole state isn't ridden with high property taxes.

[sundancer]

I think michigan is very cheap compared to other places for property taxes. I have a $400,000 house on 2.5 acres and pay only $3200.00 per year. Our sales tax is also cheaper than down south. Im looking to move to texas, there property tax is a flat 3% of your sale price, my house in texas would be $12,000 a year and there sales tax is 8%. But they dont have an income tax so thats about a break even with the two combined. I hate to think of moving but michigan is going down the drain so fast. I build houses for a living and nothing is selling, new or used.