Race relations in Michigan

[Blue Grass Fever]

Originally Posted by reconmark

I've read the comments of obviously white people as to how black people are the sole or majority reason as to the state of Detroit; and as usual none of the blame lies in their hands. Let me state the reason for the state of Detroit from a black persons point of view. First of all, the riots in Detroit ALWAYS started with blacks being attacked by whites even prior to the 1967 riots. The usual reason was that a black man had "raped" a white woman or a n****r had gotten uppiditty and talked back to a white man.
Please take a look at these articles for more information on Detroit's race relations from the start of black migration into the area http://info.detnews.com/history/stor...ategory=events
I read one poster stating that black bottom aka paradise alley wasen't a nice place to live and that poster was partly correct. It was nice in that blacks were not routinely subjected to disrespect and violence because they were in an area predominately black as residents and business owners. It wasen't nice due to overcrowding and the related problems of descrimination.
What the white posters fail to mention is that blacks had NO CHOICE but to live in black bottom because of white's use of RESTRICTED COVENENTS that precluded even the most educated and financially abled blacks to live anywhere but black bottom, adding insult to injury the White banks and city leaders strictly used REDLINING to refuse blacks the opportunity to live anywhere else in the city.
Detroit was beautiful because most everyone had a nice paying factory job and those that didn't made a nice living selling goods to people who had the purchasing power, and ability to keep homes in good shape. The city could also afford through it's tax base to maintain a high level of public workers to keep the city clean and maintained. As blacks started to move into white neighborhoods it was only because factory jobs were already starting to decline and whites were moving to the suburbs where the jobs were going but again blacks could not get home loans to also move into those areas where the jobs were relocating and were stuckin a city with a declining tax base and middle class factory jobs falling by the wayside. So, it dosen't take too much common sense to connect certain dots; that being a lower tax base means streets and parks don't get maitained as well as they used to when Whites ran the city, houses didn't get the upkeep and maitenance they needed because the job that qualified you for the home was no longer there, that job was now in the suburbs where you couldn't move to in order to get the job. White forget that routinely blacks could work in smaller shops for 20 years still be sweeping and mopping the floor with no chance of ever being given a promotion to asst mgr or mgr, Whites would go crazey if a black person was ever put in charge of anything. Think I'm exaggerating? just read the article I posted the web address to. June 1943 25,000 whites go on strike because 3 black people got a promotion to supervisor. What the article dosen,t tell you is that there were a total of 6 promotion, 3 to whites and 3 to blacks. Again whites could not tolerate the thought that any black could rise above them in society and a strike ensued; at this same plant the white females were so distressed that they had to share the restrooms with other black women that they tried to start a strike to get the restrooms segregated.
Another poster stated that Coleman Young was a racist and made 8 mile a dividing line, no this was not a fact and I wish some Whites would read rather than restating what they heard from someone else. Please read his autobiography for clarification on his 8 mile remark, what he declared was that all CRIMINALS not whites hit 8 mile road and get out of town. Here's the link for more clarification http://www.metrotimes.com/archives/young/myth.html
Whites will NOT say that there has ALWAYS been a hatred for blacks in this country but they overlook one reason for the bitter hostlity in se Mi is that at the same time blacks were migrating from the south to escape jim crow laws and lynchings and get jobs in the factories, some of those same whites were also migrating up north for the same jobs and their hatred and prejudice didn't stop at the mason-dixie line. It came right up here and made itself at home. Now how many whites who lovingly recall the good old days or their own families histories ever get on the internet and lovingly tell how old gramps used to drive around with family and friends beating and bashing in N****r heads or burning down the house that the N****r has moved in thinking he is just as good as white people.
The reason in my opinion for that state of race affairs in SE michigan is that whites have this historical amnesia as to their instigation and role in the mistreatment of blacks and that the inequalities even today have nothing to do with their generational and institutional mistreatment of blacks. I could go on and on but I'm sure you get my point.
Will I say that all our problems stem from racism, of course not but untill everyone comes to the table with real honesty and not these lies se Mi is always going to have this problem.
Yes,I am routinely pulled over in all the Grosse Pointes and Livonia and Novi among other areas and it always tickles me that once they discover that I'm a police officer and the usual BS about rolling stops and white to the rear isn't going to work they let me go with an apology, I think to myself that if it were not for my badge they would have ticketed me just to let me know I was not welcome to even drive through their community. Please excuse my mistakes, I'm not much of a typist.

Good post!

[TurboState]

I have found the minority population of Michigan are extremely racist towards white people.

The fact of the matter is, blacks in Michigan spend more time complaining about racism than they spend doing their jobs and managing their lifestyles and families. I cannot even tell you how many times I have worked with a lazy person that happens to be black, and when a supervisor writes them up for not doing their job the first thing the black person screams is "RACISM!". Frankly, how can people not be discriminatory against them when they bring this type of thing on themselves?

When I ran a retail store I tried to hire black folks, but out 9 out of 10 times I caught them stealing, and 100% of the time when I caught them, they blamed racism! In the end, I had a policy of never hiring black people because I didn't want the "Drama" they bring to the scene. I don't buy into this whole "The man keeps us down" nonsense. The fact of the matter is, you keep yourself down, and blame the man. The inability of the blacks in detroit to accept responsibility for their own actions is astounding. Detroit is 94% Black, there is no "White man" down there to "Keep the man down", there are only blacks, you can make detroit WHATEVER YOU WANT and you choose to make it a criminal infested cesspool of corruption. You have nobody else to blame but yourselves.

Between 1950 and 2000:

* Detroit's overall population decreased 49%, from 1,849,668 to 951,270
* Detroit's White population decreased 93%, from 1,545,847 to 116,599
* Detroit's Black population increased 159% from 303,721 to 787,687
* Detroit's criminal homicide rate increased 582%, from 6.1 to 41.6 per 100,000 residents annually
* Detroit's robbery rate rose from 596%, from 125 to 870 per 100,000 residents annually


During the 1960's, Detroit's homicide rate rose 217% and the robbery rate rose 539%.

Between 1940 and 2000:

* Highland Park's white population decreased 98%, from 49,475 to 816
* Highland Park's black population increased 1111%, from to 1,292 to 15,647
* Highland Park's overall population decreased 303%, from 50,810 to 16,746
* Highland Park's criminal homicide rate increased from 3240%, from 2.0 to 66.8 per 100,000 residents annually
* Highland Park's robbery rate rose from 1848%, from 77 to 1500 per 100,000 residents annually.

[BurtsBees]

Originally Posted by lavendersunrise

I'm going to preface this by saying this is my own personal opinion and not based on any research whatsoever.

I was born and raised in Roseville (NE suburb of Detroit). Over the past decade I have watched the city crumble in regards to crime, facade, and education. Why? Well, I really don't know WHY that is, however, Roseville has the lowest income of Macomb County (or so it is rumored). The percentage of blacks, whites, and other races in Roseville has changed a considerable amount in the last ten years. Perhaps that is only a superficial change that has nothing to do with the state of the city, however, from the perspective of a white family, that has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Roseville schools used to be decent until they opened them up to Wayne county.

Race is a huge problem and it's only going to get worse as bad things happen when the percentages change.

Yep, and it sucks. Fraser seems to be one of the only cities around this area doing good, besides Sterling heights. Roseville is falling apart, sadly.

[reconmark]

In reply to Turbo's nonsense and statistics, again here is a blanket denial of white's role in racism. Here you see 9 out of 10 blacks steal and 100% cry racism when caught stealing. I find it very hard to believe that you catch an employee red handed stealing and the first thing they say isn't "Hey, I didn't do it" or "I was set up!!" nope the first thing they say is "Hey, the white man's setting me up". Okay somebody may believe they if they will themselves to very hard.
Again the City of Detroit and Highland Park were beautiful cities and blacks destroyed them, right.
The dismal condition of Highland Park has everything to do with Blacks not accepting responsibility and nothing to do with a none existing Tax Base and the automakers leaving the city, were I might add, the jobs now go to a location were many whites have access to these new auto jobs to support and maintain their cities tax base and municipal services. Then from the comfort of a middle class wage you can look on others with derision and ask "Why don't they just get a job and work", knowingly or unknowingly not understanding the new 500 or 1000 new auto jobs in your city or county only came when those jobs left the city.
Now, I'm not saying that you should take these opportunities grudgingly; take them and realize the blessing of a high paying job in this economy but don't be naive and think that job materalized out of no where, the job that now feeds you is the job that may have fed a different family in a different city a year or so ago.
Now, I ask anyone to read turbo's post and not sense the hate and prejudice there, multiply that by a couple hundred thousand times and then you start to see the condition of race relations in se mi.
Not to dismiss him entirely, I will say of course some black workers are lazy and/or thieves, I have no doubt in this. Some blacks hate ALL white people, again I have no doubt of this, however are these conditions unique to blacks only?
Now imagine that turdo is a HR supervisor or hiring manager and here I come with my little ole' black self, college educated, no arrest record of ANY type, never used drugs not even marijuanna and perfect references, all of which are true as they pertain to me. I go in to interview and automatically I'm a thief or a racist or lazy or all the above, take your pick. How many of you will guess that I won't be getting a job offer no matter my qualifications and/or character.
I can get on here and name the name of the cities that I applied to, to become a police officer when I was Honorably discharged from the Marines and I always managed to be the FIRST one on the waiting list after the needed number of recruits were hired. I refused to believe that cities wouldn't hire me untill finally I was told that the only cities that would hire black officers were Detroit, Highland Park, Hamtramck grudgingly, and maybe Wayne County. Well once I applied to a few of these departments I got hired.
Some blacks place ALL their issues and troubles on white people and I know that that is wrong but I also know it's equally wrong when some white people try and say thay the condition of many blacks in this region has nothing to do with them or their father's father conduct or prejudices. These conditions were and to some extent still exist systematically and culturally in this region.
I have worked with many different races including whites and on occassion have managed them. Some were my best employees on the other hand some spent six hours a day working and the other two hours trying to undermine me to my boss. I had to explain to one young white man who didn't think it was my "place" to be in charge after he spent all of four months on the job, that he didn't have to like me just work for me. I never failed to give him "props" when he did a good job and he couldn't believe that I had reccommeded him as a team leader when I felt he was ready for the job. I explained that I didn't have to like him personally in order to see a good job done. What I didn't tell him because like some other white people, he would not have understood was that I would never allow myself to be like some of the white police recruiter who saw my color first and foremost and everything else takes a back seat, I now believe that like turbo, all they saw was a thief, liar,or racist.
I will say this and only intelligent people will understand and agree if only grudgingly, the econmoy is like an apple pie and as you cut up more and more pieces those pieces get progressively thinner and thinner, as the economies have continued to move farther and farther out even once beautiful inner ring surburbs are looking a little "Ghetto" now is this because all of a sudden law abiding white people have bacome criminals and stopped caring about their property? of course not. But the cities now face what Detroit has faced for decades, an eroding tax base, no new housing stock, NO JOBS, no space to grow out, etc. Now imagine that instead of the pie being cut up equally I cut three quarters for myself and my group and told the other group to take the remaining quarter and maintain the same quality of life and standard of living as before I took most of the pie. Think about when the factories leave an area, not only do those jobs leave but the auto suppliers, engineering firms, retail chains, super markets, etc. The list actually can continue adinfinitum.
My point is stop saying that this segregated economy had no planning and afore thought and stop believing that ALL black people don't want to work or a middle class standard of living.
I use the Auto factories in my examples because they historically allowed blacks a foot in the door of middle class life, also to black and whites, stop being so small minded because this new global economy and open borders government is going to do more to harm you economically and socially than your combined racism and prejudice ever could.

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by TurboState

I have found the minority population of Michigan are extremely racist towards white people.

The fact of the matter is, blacks in Michigan spend more time complaining about racism than they spend doing their jobs and managing their lifestyles and families. I cannot even tell you how many times I have worked with a lazy person that happens to be black, and when a supervisor writes them up for not doing their job the first thing the black person screams is "RACISM!". Frankly, how can people not be discriminatory against them when they bring this type of thing on themselves?

When I ran a retail store I tried to hire black folks, but out 9 out of 10 times I caught them stealing, and 100% of the time when I caught them, they blamed racism! In the end, I had a policy of never hiring black people because I didn't want the "Drama" they bring to the scene. I don't buy into this whole "The man keeps us down" nonsense. The fact of the matter is, you keep yourself down, and blame the man. The inability of the blacks in detroit to accept responsibility for their own actions is astounding. Detroit is 94% Black, there is no "White man" down there to "Keep the man down", there are only blacks, you can make detroit WHATEVER YOU WANT and you choose to make it a criminal infested cesspool of corruption. You have nobody else to blame but yourselves.

Between 1950 and 2000:

* Detroit's overall population decreased 49%, from 1,849,668 to 951,270
* Detroit's White population decreased 93%, from 1,545,847 to 116,599
* Detroit's Black population increased 159% from 303,721 to 787,687
* Detroit's criminal homicide rate increased 582%, from 6.1 to 41.6 per 100,000 residents annually
* Detroit's robbery rate rose from 596%, from 125 to 870 per 100,000 residents annually


During the 1960's, Detroit's homicide rate rose 217% and the robbery rate rose 539%.

Between 1940 and 2000:

* Highland Park's white population decreased 98%, from 49,475 to 816
* Highland Park's black population increased 1111%, from to 1,292 to 15,647
* Highland Park's overall population decreased 303%, from 50,810 to 16,746
* Highland Park's criminal homicide rate increased from 3240%, from 2.0 to 66.8 per 100,000 residents annually
* Highland Park's robbery rate rose from 1848%, from 77 to 1500 per 100,000 residents annually.

Wonderful post and oh so true!! Thank you! I couldn't agree with you more. I wish more people would understand this. Great job on you post!

[TurboState]

Its a complicated issue for sure. I am simply saying Detroiters need to start accepting responsibility for their city.

Where I live, we *ALL* take responsibility for our areas. If I am out walking with my kids, and I see a piece of trash on the side of the road, I pick it up! Neighbors walking their dogs always carry small bags to pick up the droppings. Everyone looks out for everyone else, and everyone treats their neighborhood with PRIDE. What is all of this talk about "Black Pride" I hear? Exactly that, TALK, I see no action, I see no acceptance of responsibility. All it takes is a few people to start to take pride, and it spreads like a virus.

It seems to me though that people of lesser class always seem to not care about themselves, or their surroundings. Both black or white, this problem seems systemic to being poor. But one thing I notice as a pretty big seperater between black and white poor are that white poor seem to not prey on their own nearly as much. I wouldn't have much of a problem living in a poor white neighborhood as a white person, but if I was black, I probably wouldn't even consider living in a poor black neighborhood.

Blacks need to accept responsibility for not only their neighborhoods, but their families. How many black men knockup black women, then skip town never to be seen again? Where are the family values and morals? How can there be change with mostly fractured families where the mom is off working 80 hours a week, and the kids are hanging out in alleys smoking crack? The black man bears a HUGE burden for the plight of their race in my opinion. Almost every black person I have met between the ages of 15-35 wants to "Get one up" on someone that has it better than them. I am sure much of this is caused by what I mention in the previous paragraph relating to fractured families and family values.

What the black man needs to realize is that their actions are having a butterfly effect ON THE ENTIRE STATE OF MICHIGAN. Those struggling mothers that can't pay their bills, force higher utilities on everyone else. Our water bill went up 15% in the last year and a half, and the reason was defaults on bills by Detroiters. A VAST MAJORITY of my huge property tax bills go to the city of Detroit, forcing my local school district to pass additional tax increases for seperate funding. Placing a further burden on everyone else .

Black mothers aren't exempt from liability either. When you are poor, can barely pay your rent, and don't have a "man" around that is a good father and husband.. Then for the love of god - DO NOT KEEP HAVING KIDS! Get some birth control, and stop the insanity. Take responsibility for the fact you can't afford anymore kids, you can't afford 3 dogs and 2 cats or a expensive car, and work to improve your life so you CAN!

It all comes down to personal responsibility, honestly. I have never met a bigger pile of people unable to accept responsibility than the majority population of the city of detroit.

[reconmark]

Moderator cut: insulting

First of all I plainly stated that I used the auto industry as an example because they afforded black people a MIDDLE CLASS standard of living; This included a handsome wage along with employer paid vacation, sick time, personal days, and retirement. Someone PLEASE show me where the quality of the Service oriented jobs (Wendy's, retail sales, sec guard) will ever allow a MIDDLE CLASS standard of living. Also when you pick up these paychecks you may as well get your welfare card at the same time because anyone knows that these jobs pay so poorly that you'll qualify for welfare if you support anyone other than yourself.

I'm positive that no one major employer in the city of Highland Park is or will ever to hire the number of workers the auto factories employed and therefore literally hundreds of HIGH paying employers would have to locate into Highland Park and I don't see that happening, I drive through there every day.

If you read english at a limited level let me clarify something, there's a VERY important word called "Some" and this word means "Not All" so when you see that word in relation to the subject it means "Not All". I never said black people place their problems on whites I may have said "Some" do. If any person thinks that's an untrue statement they are only fooling themselves. In my posts I sometimes ask rhetorical questions (Don't ask, just get your Dictionary) as a means to get people to think and not react blindly out of ignorance or prejudice, something that both blacks and whites may be guilty of from time to time. So if someone missed that rhetorical question that's on them because I never meant to state the conditions of Detroit and Highland Park were from the sole actions of black people.

Now, I know some people are from the south and the term "boy" isn't meant to be disrespectful and so on occassion I'll overlook being addressed as such and not place their ignorance of knowing that to address a black man up north as a "boy" would be considered rude and ignorant, so for being called a "boy" I'll just chalk that up as someone being ignorant.

An Ignorant and/or stupid person is one who would like information on a subject and not know the details or history behind it. Bankers, Mortgage Brokers, and used auto salesmen are just a few of the people that love an Ignorant and/or stupid person because that person makes decisions not based on fact and pertinent information. When the original poster asked about race relations in michigan then he should have been given the pertient facts in order to be more aware of the situation in this area. I believe the poster may be white but many blacks in this region may be just as ignorant of the issues I addressed in my first post and any info moves us from the "ignorant" to the "informed "category .

The pride in my post stems from the fact that even though my mother never graduated from high school having left clarksdale Miss at the age of 16 to migrate up north to work, she made sure all five of her children graduated high school and went on to attend college, that none of us were ever kicked out of school, used drugs, or were arrested, had children we didn't support.

In essence I'm proud because my mother raised black men and women who overcame the odds that both black and white people placed in our paths and against the odds became successful human beings.

My mother was always a very intelligent woman and she didn't receive her GED untill she was 37 years old but she worked all her life and taught us a valuable lesson, make the most of the options you have even if the deck is stacked against you. I truly wish more people would learn that same lesson.

I don't have to tell my supervisor anything I don't deem pertinent, after all I am the supervisor. To answer a childish question, I demand a certain level of proficiency from anyone who works for me, if they need help or coaching and motivation I do that because when you look good I look good, what I don't do is carry dead weight because their my "Brother" or because of white "Entitlement". You perform or you go home and anyone who dosen't demand that of you thinks you are too dumb to perform at the required level or that "certain" people need a crutch to compete. Which one are you?

Apologies to the original poster for straying from your original question and to other posters that reads a post that started out informative and went doewnhill due to personal attacks and insults.

[markablue]

Since this thread has gone way off topic and a lot of insults have been exchanged, there's no more place for it on the local forum.

Those of you who wish to debate the race relations in general, are welcome to start a new thread in Politics and other Controversies. All attempts to revive it here will be deleted or moved elsewhere.

Thank you all for participating.