[mewith3]

this week....

FINANCE - Ford announces $129M 3Q loss, burns $7.7B in cash - Top News - Comcast.net


It would be nice to see the state reacting and trying to bring in new businesses.

[merit1sje]

Apparently, auto execs. were asking for $25 billion in low interest loans and also were looking to be included in the $700 billion bailout. If Ford can rip through almost $8 billion in cash and GM is likely to run out of cash by next year, I fail to see how $25 billion is going to help? By the way, would this money have restrictions attached to it concerning executive compensation? Do you ever get the feeling that companies can grow so big that it becomes impossible to sustain them?

[MittenDweller82]

Well, a great deal of changes will occur within the "big 3"..consolidation is almost necessary to prevent multiple bankruptcies. We'll probably see the closure of small town GM and Chrysler dealers, as well as other drastic measures...along with of course, many thousands loosing their employment. If domestic auto makers want to survive, they must arrive at the reality that high pay is no longer a possibility.

[michmoldman]

Exactly
Why should these workers be making so much money? This is one of the biggest reasons these companies are going under. Sure everyone and their brother wanted to work in these factories, but when you get right down to it..they get paid way too much! It was great while it lasted, but sociologist is right...that kind of pay is not possible any longer.

[mewith3]

they were rejected on their plea for more bailout money
U.S. rejects GM's call for help in a merger - International Herald Tribune

Not all the workforce is overpaid, as a matter of fact salaried workers currently leaving automotive almost always get a pay raise...I don't know of too many pay cuts.

The execs do make too much for "not really knowing enough" to put thecompany on the right track long enough.

As for the pay scale of the hourly worker they had been too high for too long, they have made some change there. Their legacy costs are extraordinary!! They need someone to stand up to it, but no one does. This is definately part of the reason new industry isn't coming in, when other states are either "right to work" or aren't nearly as strongly unionized.

[merit1sje]

I need to expand on my earlier post. The $25 billion that the auto industry was asking for(from what I read)was to shore up health care costs and retiree benifits. As mewith3 pointed out, their legacy costs are indeed extraordinary. It may be that unions came about as means of worker protection decades ago but they seem to have been turned into a tool for exploitation. We should look for hindsight in what is affecting us today. It is there in those "one line truths". "A penny saved is a penny earned", "Waste not, want not". For all of us who desire to much, there is a price to be paid.

[TNKY]

mewith3 makes a fantastic point, the unionized workforce in MI is a detriment. C' mon, if you wanted to start up an industry would you be comfortable going to a state where the union has such a presence? Like merit1sje said, it probably was a good idea that was taken in a direction unintended during its origins. You reap what you sow? We're all gonna reap what THEY sowed.

[kcam213]

So what will the future look like?

People working 40 hours per week, driving 30 - 45 minutes commute for $45,000 per year or $21.60 before taxes?

Is $21.60 too much? maybe $18.00 or about $38,000 per year... is that more reasonable for the factory workers?

Okay, then if the unionized worker is going to take a cut in pay... so will the rest of the industries. I believe that union workers lead the other workers. When unions demanded a 5 day work week, the other workers benefitted as well. When unions got health benefits and pensions, the others benefitted as well.

So, are the rest of us non professionals going to be able to sustain our selves and families on $38,000 per year BEFORE taxes?

How will people be able to afford gas for those long commutes? I know, we should all moved back to our jobs. Many people work in the urban areas. So get ready to move Joe Jr. and baby Madison to Detroit and Detroit public school system.

That truck that cost $30,000... forget it! That is for "rich" people. Go out and look for that 1995 (13 year old) Escort and become friendly with your neighbors. You will need there help when it is time to put in a new tranny in that Escort.

That is the way people used to live. Not saying it is bad or good, but not sure that I want to live in urban area, not sure I want to drive old cars that require repairs, not sure I want to live in an old drafty 875 SQ ft house with a leaky roof. Your kids, if they are lucky will get a job at Auto zone or waitress at Bob Evans because college will only be for the rich kids.

It just seems like the rich are getting richer and the middle class is vanishing.

[merit1sje]

About six years ago I worked with a man whose son was called in for an interview at the Ford plant in Saline, Michigan. His son was twenty years old at the time and had had his application in for almost two years. High school graduate. No college degree. The Human Resources Director told Mike that at the entry level position he would be hired in for, he could make around $70,000 a year gross with a standard 40 hour week plus time and a half on Saturdays(mandatory at that time)and some Sundays. By my calculations, that's somewhere between $23 and $25 dollars an hour to start. Not to bad for a kid just a couple of years out of high school! I wonder if all those times when the UAW workers were getting ready to go on strike for some injustice that they thought was being done to them or that they thought because the company made an extra billion or two in profits, a chunk of that should be theirs too, if they thought about the impact of their wants on the buying public? Did they really think that the consumer would be willing to dole out 20, 25, 30 grand or more for an automobile? I watched for years as the auto workers recieved more perks and benefits and thought to myself, it's only a matter of time before they'll work themselves out of a job. Like I said, our desires come at a cost.