[Peter B]

Originally Posted by michiganmom48

Well it is sad and although this all will hurt a lot of people I do think they are getting nowhere in Washington. I heard that the three big CEO that are there took private jets to get there. I heard it cost 20,000 instead of 288 coach and 833 furst class. THis is what needs to chance let the CEO go. Go there to beg for help and take private jets to get there.

One of the reasons they will not get the taxpayer dollars that they are begging for. Let them go bankrupt and let the strongest survive. These companies are piles of manure that deserve exactly what is going to happen to them. F them!!! Great Britain did this with the Renault car company many years ago (mid 70's I believe) and they still went belly up within a few years. GM, Ford, et el have been very poorly run for many years and are just getting what they deserve. End of story. Taking a $20k jet ride to beg for taxpayer dollars. What is more offensive than that? F them and the horses they rode in on. Callous pieces of garbage!!

[brokerdave]

Originally Posted by Westbury

The quality of US cars has improved dramatically over the past ten years so I have to give them credit for that. I've only purchased from the big three and kept every one for 150 to 200,000 miles and never had any real problems with them other than normal wear (although I do a good job of maintenance). Poor management with sort sighted vision on quarterly profits put them where they are today. Instead of staying focused on developing smaller/more fuel efficient cars they all got caught up in the truck/SUV era with the big profits. Instead of pouring those profits into the future they focused on more big vehicles and compensating themselves for doing a "good job". They did a very good job of messing things up!

they never intended for those cars to last that long. i wont say who i worked for, but we did product stress testing to find the most efficient materials and products that would fail consistently in a time frame.

if you think the cars have gotten better, you obviously have never drove an american "foreign" car. even VW's have gotten flawless in there design and drive ability. everything is built to fail. the power/heated seats was the icing on the cake for failures.

im not sure if you understood how it worked, but the "profit" they made on went into subsidizing the cheaper cars. how do you think a $45,000 truck was $200 a month or a tempo or focus at $130. hell even convertibles. now that there is no more subsidizing, convertibles are $600/m

[malamute]

Originally Posted by brokerdave

we can compare to toyota if that makes you fell better, they have 1,500 dealerships, lol.


the plain and simple fact is the product. the big 3 have been making junk products for years and finally its taking its effecting them. the big 3 average a lemon car every 200,000 cars, where as honda and toyota are at 1.4 million per lemon. that means they are 7X more efficient and reliable. an example of this is to look at all the recalls.

big 3 cars last 3 years or 60,000 miles. they are designed this way.

honda/toyota designed for 300,000 miles minimum

huge difference.

I don't really think that's true. The cars from the Big 3 are fine. I buy used cars and trucks, a good GM truck with 150,000 miles on it is just getting broken in. Same goes for a jeep and I think it's common to see Fords with 200,000 miles and running great. I've had them.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Peter B

One of the reasons they will not get the taxpayer dollars that they are begging for. Let them go bankrupt and let the strongest survive. These companies are piles of manure that deserve exactly what is going to happen to them. F them!!! Great Britain did this with the Renault car company many years ago (mid 70's I believe) and they still went belly up within a few years. GM, Ford, et el have been very poorly run for many years and are just getting what they deserve. End of story. Taking a $20k jet ride to beg for taxpayer dollars. What is more offensive than that? F them and the horses they rode in on. Callous pieces of garbage!!

Chapter 11 would let them sell off some assets, get rid of some product lines and restructure. They have become too big, too bulky. Ford just sold off Mazda. The factories and product lines that are sold could be given new management and made efficient, or else they will fizzle but that's the natural order of things.

[GlassPipe]

Originally Posted by malamute

I don't really think that's true. The cars from the Big 3 are fine. I buy used cars and trucks, a good GM truck with 150,000 miles on it is just getting broken in. Same goes for a jeep and I think it's common to see Fords with 200,000 miles and running great. I've had them.

I love my sierra, but I've known 3 other people personally who've had to replace their $500 fuel pumps around 120k miles. I've known a couple other people who's RAM pickups have had bad trannies at just over 60k miles. My ford (piece of crap) taurus also has numerous electrical and mechanical quirks as well. When I ask mechanics about it, they know exactly what's wrong and how to fix it without even looking at it. That tells me that it's a known issue and needs to be resolved. They're crooks! They'll preach quality and reliability but then turn around and tell you there is nothing they can do since you're just over 100 miles out of warranty. They're in the business of selling you a lot of cars over your lifetime - not 2 or 3.

[jimmyP]

I read an analyst who said that when Lee Iacocca came to congress in 1979, he had a detailed plan on how he was going to pay back the money. The three stooges went with nothing and you could see they were clearly not thinking (private jets??). The mismanagement of these companies is truly atrocious and the first order of business is resignation of the CEO's

[GlassPipe]

Iacocca also worked for a dollar a year until the company was turned around. Many of his top execs followed suit. That was dedication. Those 3 arogant bums yesterday are just that - BUMS! GM came out and said that the drilling they took for the jets was nothing but a distraction from the facts. How far from the truth could they be? IT WAS AN EXCELLENT HIGHLIGHT TO HOW THEY DEAL WITH THINGS! Just like my $900 chair that could have been bought for $50 - they spend way too much money on luxuries and pretty facades. For what they paid to fly there ($20,000) they could have flown 79 of their top execs and themselves in a $250 coach seat. 18 people could have sat in a comfy $50 chair for the one that I'm sitting in right now. They are fools - plain and simple. So caught up in a priveledged lifestyle that they cannot see the people that are holding them up. They cited security reasons for not flying commercial, that it's company policy to fly privately. Give me a friggen break!!! There are more federal agents, security cameras and cops in an airport and on the planes than could fit into a private jet. They are so focused on processes and procedures that common sense takes a back seat to beaurocracy. I see it every day and it pisses me off more and more. The lifers around here are like robots. A guy stumbles on a piece of gravel and ten people huddle around him saying that someone needs to file a "near-miss" accident report. LOL - who processes that crap??? More and more wasted cash. The bailout loan isn't going to help them, they'll just continue to be fools and pretend they're rich.

[Sharks With Lasers]

Keep in mind that Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc., are also being affected by a loss of car sales in the U.S. The Big 3 certainly deserve their share of blame, but the credit crisis and economic downturn is responsible for a lot of the problems going on right now.

[prairiestate]

The lack of long range planning from the big 3 is incomprehensible. I bought a Toyota Yaris, a fuel efficient subcompact, in the spring of '06. This car has been a top seller in Europe and elsewhere for years. Ford also has a top selling subcompact in Europe, the Fiesta. Guess when they are bringing it to the U.S.? 2010! Four years after gas hit four something a gallon!

[Rapunzll]

Originally Posted by topshop

Considering all the bad news about the Big3, would it be reasonable to assume that many people are going to avoid those carmakers regardless of what happens to them with bailouts or bankruptcy or any other approach?

Might it not be best to just shut them down, allow someone to buy the assets and start new car making companies from scratch?

Brand new efficient companies which could sell cars to the entire world and begin to make Detroit the new king of car manufacturing.

They should go bankrupt and reorganize. They are crippled because of the unions.