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Old 11-28-2008, 01:01 PM
 
225 posts, read 552,237 times
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I believe education is never a detriment (or at least rarely a detriment), but I also think you can save a lot of time and money by removing some of the "fluff" from degree programs that are more about job security for tenured professors than they are about imparting the knowledge a student needs to be successful in their chosen field.

The foreign language I was forced to take was nothing but a waste of time and money. Although I guess if I were abducted and dropped off in Paris, assuming I had some money, I could order sausages and fried potatoes at the Cafe Napoleon, if I could find it.
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Northwestern Michigan
937 posts, read 1,594,066 times
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Health care & Auto repair careers are basically recession-proof. The future demand will be incredible. Folks are not buying new cars but doing WHATEVER is necessary to repair what they have
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:21 PM
 
727 posts, read 939,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-IRISH View Post
Does anyone think there is too much emphasis on higher education,getting away from the "work with your hands" scenario a good thing,or will it turn to bite us in the end?
To this i add,i have worked with both,and i have met people with master's degree's who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time,and i have met the eveyday "joe" that should have been a professor somewhere,what say you?
i dont think it matters...your education is up to YOU, whether you go to college or not. lots of talk on here about how much 'better' our country would be if we were educated a certain way, but this country operates on capitalism, and that means you don't have to educate at all if that's what you choose. and also, not everyone is interested in 'technology' type careers. so if you want an educated society that meets such standards as those described in some of these posts, you might need to move to a country that is socialist.
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Old 11-28-2008, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
7,180 posts, read 10,791,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjay View Post
i dont think it matters...your education is up to YOU, whether you go to college or not. lots of talk on here about how much 'better' our country would be if we were educated a certain way, but this country operates on capitalism, and that means you don't have to educate at all if that's what you choose. and also, not everyone is interested in 'technology' type careers. so if you want an educated society that meets such standards as those described in some of these posts, you might need to move to a country that is socialist.
Wow. No wonder Michigan is in the crapper.
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Old 11-28-2008, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
112 posts, read 196,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Here's a stat for you guys: the Employment rate for Michigan residents with a Bachelors Degree or higher is 98.7% (1.3% unemployment rate). Employment rate for those without is close to 90% (10% unemployment).

Also, in the U.S. the average weekly earnings breakdown looks like this (2007):

) No high school diploma = $471/week
) HS diploma/GED = $618
) BA or higher = $1131
) Masters, PHD = $1886

Sure, you can always find examples of people that do quite well with little to no education, but it's certainly not the norm. With highly specialized degrees like accounting, chemistry, financial analysis, bioinformatics, etc., you're almost guaranteed lifetime employment. Not many investments out there where you're guaranteed a huge return on your investment (more than enough to pay off student loans and then some).

Also, we now live in a world where we can't survive as a state with all of us just trading goods and services with each other. Plumbers, roofers and ditch diggers are great and sorely needed, but we're not going to grow as an economy reliant on those occupations. You can be the best plumber or auto mechanic in the world, but if there aren't thousands of employees working at highly specialized companies in Michigan creating business solutions for the entire global marketplace, you aren't going to have any cars or pipes to work on. And it's pretty difficult to dig wells or fix alternators in China or Europe from here in Michigan.

So even though a college education might not be right for you or your family, the last thing people should be preaching is that Michigan should start dumbing down its population. Yikes. I may be misunderstanding some of these posts, but just because there are some dumb college graduates does not mean that having an educated populace is not important.
Of the 50 states (or 57 if you are the highly educated president elect) and D.C, the greatest number of college grads is in D.C.

So, if Michigan were to attain that same high level of grads, then the state would be as great a place to live as D.C?

And the Michigan population could then run our state as well as those in D.C. run the country?

Yes...that is certainly something to consider.



Of course, college has its place. My father was a college prof...degrees from both MSU an U of M. However our country has the whole college thing all messed up. Many companies, and certainly the governments, depend heavily on degrees, instead of abilities, to qualify for jobs...then end up with a lot of people running things who can't find their way to the bathroom without help! God forbid anyone test capability.

According to studies, about half of college grads can't read a bus schedule. Only 13% can handle multiple step math problems.

I want to know what someone can do, what they can produce, what they can actually accomplish...not what papers they have accumulated.
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
7,180 posts, read 10,791,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshop View Post
Of the 50 states (or 57 if you are the highly educated president elect) and D.C, the greatest number of college grads is in D.C.

So, if Michigan were to attain that same high level of grads, then the state would be as great a place to live as D.C?

And the Michigan population could then run our state as well as those in D.C. run the country?

Yes...that is certainly something to consider.



Of course, college has its place. My father was a college prof...degrees from both MSU an U of M. However our country has the whole college thing all messed up. Many companies, and certainly the governments, depend heavily on degrees, instead of abilities, to qualify for jobs...then end up with a lot of people running things who can't find their way to the bathroom without help! God forbid anyone test capability.

According to studies, about half of college grads can't read a bus schedule. Only 13% can handle multiple step math problems.

I want to know what someone can do, what they can produce, what they can actually accomplish...not what papers they have accumulated.
Interesting you bring up D.C.. Check out the job growth in the metro D.C. area, now at almost 3 Million people employed:



I'd kill to have an economy like the metro D.C. area. If you haven't been there in the last few years, it's exploding.

Michigan's racing D.C. to that 3.5 Million employed number, except we're going the other way (and our land mass is like 20x bigger):




Also interestingly, Michigan has slipped from 19th in the country for number of residents with college degrees to 35th in that 10 year time period. Maybe our problem is not the automotive companies (or Granholm).
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:01 PM
 
727 posts, read 939,836 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Wow. No wonder Michigan is in the crapper.
i never said education is bad....i'm saying you have to remember this country operates under capitalism....freedom of choice. good luck trying to MAKE people do what YOU want. michigan is not in the crapper because someone in michigan has an opinion. i have an education and an open mind.... thanks for the insult though.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
7,180 posts, read 10,791,873 times
Reputation: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjay View Post
i never said education is bad....i'm saying you have to remember this country operates under capitalism....freedom of choice. good luck trying to MAKE people do what YOU want. michigan is not in the crapper because someone in michigan has an opinion. i have an education and an open mind.... thanks for the insult though.
This country does not operate under free market capitalism, if that's what you were trying to get at. It's a heavily manipulated market system, where dollars are pushed and pulled in all different directions to favor different outcomes (credits, tax structures, incentives). If, as a country or a state, we decided that we weren't going to be left in last place in the next 50 - 100 years, we could do it. But it wouldn't be as a free market capitalist society. There are far too many other countries that will do everything cheaper and dirtier than we would be willing to, and they'd win.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:54 AM
 
727 posts, read 939,836 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
This country does not operate under free market capitalism, if that's what you were trying to get at. It's a heavily manipulated market system, where dollars are pushed and pulled in all different directions to favor different outcomes (credits, tax structures, incentives). If, as a country or a state, we decided that we weren't going to be left in last place in the next 50 - 100 years, we could do it. But it wouldn't be as a free market capitalist society. There are far too many other countries that will do everything cheaper and dirtier than we would be willing to, and they'd win.
no its not true capitalism....but after 12th grade an education is no longer 'forced'. i'm just saying you can't make people do anything. you can't make people educate themselves. that's part of how our 'freedom' works.
as long as money/greed is the driving force nobody will 'win'.
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
112 posts, read 196,773 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Interesting you bring up D.C.. Check out the job growth in the metro D.C. area, now at almost 3 Million people employed:

I'd kill to have an economy like the metro D.C. area. If you haven't been there in the last few years, it's exploding.

Michigan's racing D.C. to that 3.5 Million employed number, except we're going the other way (and our land mass is like 20x bigger):

Also interestingly, Michigan has slipped from 19th in the country for number of residents with college degrees to 35th in that 10 year time period. Maybe our problem is not the automotive companies (or Granholm).
D.C. is exploding in many ways...compared to Michigan:

-Gun deaths 3 times greater

-Abortion 3 times greater

-Mental health costs 4 times greater

-Elementary schools assessment scores 4 times worse

-Child poverty 2 times greater

-Senior poverty 2 times greater

And on, and on, and on...

Sounds like a real utopia compared to Michigan. If this is the result when one packs a massive amount of "highly educated" people into an area, I'll pass.

BTW...I know you are well aware that the vast majority of those jobs in D.C. are government created positions which produce little or nothing of benefit to anyone other than those collecting the salaries. People with degrees from all over the U.S. flock to D.C. simply to cash in on the billions collected from places like Michigan where the people actually produce something of value.

If government shackles were removed at all levels, Michigan's growth would be staggering...utilizing both college educated people in areas where such an education is truly needed and and people educated in ways other than college which are appropriate for other careers.
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