[MI-IRISH]

Ok few posts i read bash the economy here,last i saw,it's pretty crappy everywhere.i can say in Michigans defense,after living out west,it's cheaper here,better scenery,and a trifle bit more fun.
Now,if you want to bash something,start in your own backyard,my yard is just fine,so keep on your side of the fence,and if you left because you felt it treated you bad,get over it,sounds like a whiner,not a survivor.And,just to touch on the previous point,if Michigan's economy were to go through the roof tomorrow,would you pack up and return,and wear your mantra of "I have always been faithful and loyal to Michigan"...probably.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by MI-IRISH

Ok few posts i read bash the economy here,last i saw,it's pretty crappy everywhere.i can say in Michigans defense,after living out west,it's cheaper here,better scenery,and a trifle bit more fun.
Now,if you want to bash something,start in your own backyard,my yard is just fine,so keep on your side of the fence,and if you left because you felt it treated you bad,get over it,sounds like a whiner,not a survivor.And,just to touch on the previous point,if Michigan's economy were to go through the roof tomorrow,would you pack up and return,and wear your mantra of "I have always been faithful and loyal to Michigan"...probably.

The problem is, you are obvioulsy in a comfortable position and can have your point of view that people who can't find work are simply bashing.

Imagine what it would be like to have house payments and children to feed and be out of work or facing a layoff. You can't imagine that. It's not whining to wonder where to go in such a situation. I certainly would move to where I could find work because not working would not be an option for me.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by malamute

The problem is, you are obvioulsy in a comfortable position and can have your point of view that people who can't find work are simply bashing.

Imagine what it would be like to have house payments and children to feed and be out of work or facing a layoff. You can't imagine that. It's not whining to wonder where to go in such a situation. I certainly would move to where I could find work because not working would not be an option for me.

I agree 100%, and have been in that situation before. But what would be the point in returning to the States forum you left, just to harp on WHY you left without trying to add something. I think that is what the OP is getting at. Not that there isn't real reasons to leave the State if need be, or desired.

[upandrunning]

To tell someone that they should suck it up and lump it. Or be loyal to a piece of dirt is just silly. We as a nation are facing so many problems it is unreal. Obama has inherited the Hindenburg after the fire has started. Michigan is on the front line because of the lessons they did not learn in the 77-84 recession. We heard "never again will we have all our eggs in the auto industry basket." But then the auto industry came back with a vengeance, 10k and 20k Christmas bonuses. People buying homes to stay in when they went up north to ski, or snow mobile. The economy boomed mostly based on the auto industry, and no one said a thing. When homes were going up at an unreal and unsustainable rate, no one said a thing. As these same people working the lines at GM, Chrysler, and Ford, bought homes with 110% loans no one said a thing. When Toyota was building the Prius, and Honda built the Insight, they only made fun of the green hippies, the Hollywood crowd, who wanted to hug trees. They answered with the Dodge Charger with 500HP power, The new Ford Mustang, and the Hummer that was almost as big as an Abrams tank. Then as the world economy went into over drive, and those people building our TVs, Washers and stereos wanted their own cars and homes and to live more like us, oil was gobbled up faster then it could be pulled from the ground. As the price rose still the big three built the cars that were more and more being looked at with distain. And at a 30 to 50k they kept on building them. Now they want my tax $ to bail them out of a crisis of their own making. They need to pay for some line workers health care, as I have to pay 100$ a month for my own. And I am supposed to say nothing, or be loyal to some dirt in Michigan? Michigan is collapsing because of people running after the money and not asking the questions. All those people who bought and lived past their means all over this country have contributed to the crisis. All those who listened to the Bush administration to buy buy buy are part of the problem. All those people who get caught up in having to buy a BMW to out do the neighbors Cadillac or the home that is 1000 sf bigger are to blame. The consumer mentality that has taken root in this nation, the people who follow any one waving a flag and saying if you descent you are not American are the problem. We have to question, and think for ourselves, People like Shaun Hannity are to blame. They are still waving a flag and if you disagree you are un-American. I even watched in horror as Hannity on Fox news defending Joe McCarthy, that non of the people he accused were innocent of being communist. I personally think that we have to reinvent America or we are lost. But it will depart from the old conservative line of, we are the greatest nation god gave man lines, that the neocons have given us instead of real solutions to real problems. This last election was a good start in a new direction. The whole country can play a part, but Michigan’s auto industry had better get their heads out of their asses fast. They had better quit thinking and dreaming of the days when they can build Hummers, and Escalades again, and start to really innovate the auto industry and they many have a chance. We have had 8 years of doing noting with a short sighted president, we can not afford to waste a second more.

[deslok]

How does George Bush have to do with the auto makers utter failure? If anything his wacky incentives he gave to big businesses that everyone in Michigan hates kept most of it's silly residents in a job a bit longer.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by deslok

If anything his wacky incentives he gave to big businesses that everyone in Michigan hates kept most of it's silly residents in a job a bit longer.

Most of the residents of Michigan work for the big three? Really? Just where do you come up with that, I really would like to know.

[MI-IRISH]

[quote=malamute;6462062]The problem is, you are obvioulsy in a comfortable position and can have your point of view that people who can't find work are simply bashing.

Imagine what it would be like to have house payments and children to feed and be out of work or facing a layoff quote]

Been there,did that my friend,got a house payment,three kids to feed,and my oldest boy is a horse...eats more than the other two
And i am in a comfotable position,but i put myself there,by paying attention to my surroundings and being self-reliant,and learning that no matter what,at the end of the day,it's my own bed i gotta sleep in.
the bottom line is most of these basher's are the joker's that had an opportunity and blew it...for them there is no sympathy

[Mamama Mia]

I love you, Michigan!
We have been saying Yes! to Michigan our entire lives and although we don't use many of the services, we are paying some huge taxes on our second home there. I am hoping for the very best for the state, its industries and residents.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Bydand

I agree 100%, and have been in that situation before. But what would be the point in returning to the States forum you left, just to harp on WHY you left without trying to add something. I think that is what the OP is getting at. Not that there isn't real reasons to leave the State if need be, or desired.

Some probably are bitter, angry or hurt that they had to leave their state.

I left but for weather reasons. I prefer living in a place like I do where today it was almost 70 degrees and I'll probably have another two weeks before I need to turn on the heater. That's not bashing though because Michigan is great for those who love long winters and the beautiful snow and winter sports.

I have family there and I know that some people are doing just fine but not all people are. I don't see any point in people sitting around collecting unemployment forever or getting on welfare when there are jobs elsewhere. Some people would prefer to do that and of course those who work as teachers in Michigan would be crazy to leave because they'd never make the kind of salaries teachers make in Michigan. Same with nurses and doctors, Michigan pays very very well for some careers.

It comes down to some people in Michigan have it very very well and would not have to consider leaving and would take a big pay cut if they did leave but that's not true for all people. And -- everybody cannot work as a teacher, nurse, or doctor. No economy would support 100% of workers in just a handful of fields.

[MittenDweller82]

Michigan, California, Alaska, doesn't matter.....if conditions are so horrible that many can't find suitable employment, the choice is simple. "Sticking it out" is one thing, being foolish is another, and as someone with a daughter myself I would do anything to provide for her and I wouldn't even look back at Michigan if I lost my position.