[Coldjensens]

INtersting stats. Central is a commuter school>? Eastern and Western are listed as residential campuses, but the comments from students complain about them being commuter schools and no one around on weekends.

Eastern has somewhat lower grade averages at admission. I cannot believe that people are getting into college with a 2.0 - 2.4 gpa.

One advantage I guess is that it would be nice to be in the top 8% of the incoming class.

Reviews on eastern seem to say that it is good for Education and business. Not so good for other things.

Reviews of Western are mixed but all seem to say it is a big time party school. It seems to have a good music and theater program but little is said about education. However it started out as a teachers college.

We are going to eastern tomorrow for scholarship testing. I will look around while she takes the tests.

They are definitely going to different schools. One is an overachiever and the other is tired of bbeing in her sisters shadow.

[Coldjensens]

Small schools we are looking at are
Hillsdale
Baldwin Wallace
Alma (they got offered pretty big scholarships there already)

The still want to look at Adrian. We know nothing about it.

They did not like Albion I do not remember why.


Neither one seems to want to look outside of MI or Ohio. I suggested to our overachiever that she apply to Havard, Princeton and Yale, but she refused. At Harvard she could live with Grandma and Grandpa and save a lot. No interest. Only limited interest in U-Michigan. She seems mostly focussed on Hillsdale. I do nto thnk it matters, since she does nto know what she wants to do but does nto want math/science oriented career, she will probably end up going to law school or business school. What else can you do witha liberal arts degree?

[flyingwriter]

Hillsdale's a great school, I'd definitely recomment it. Same for Alma. Never heard of Adrian College, didn't even know there was a college in Adrian! Know nothing about Baldwin-Wallace or any other Ohio school. Western's a good school for those programs - but it's definitely a party school and has the reputation of a party school. A lot of people call it "Wastern." Western seems to be a university for underachievers - many students here could have gone to more prestigious colleges, but came to WMU because it was close to home/their friends are here/it's cheap/it's fun. It's definitely a commuter campus, the vast majority of non-freshmen live off campus. Many live in the student ghettos near campus, but quite a few live further away, in places like Comstock, Richland, Portage, Battle Creek, and Schoolcraft. I know a few who live in Three Rivers - a town 25 miles away.

Any degree is useful, as long as it's not something like aviation, medieval studies, or family studies.

[mofromcheboygankalamazoo]

Originally Posted by kazoopilot

Hillsdale's a great school, I'd definitely recomment it. Same for Alma. Never heard of Adrian College, didn't even know there was a college in Adrian! Know nothing about Baldwin-Wallace or any other Ohio school. Western's a good school for those programs - but it's definitely a party school and has the reputation of a party school. A lot of people call it "Wastern." Western seems to be a university for underachievers - many students here could have gone to more prestigious colleges, but came to WMU because it was close to home/their friends are here/it's cheap/it's fun. It's definitely a commuter campus, the vast majority of non-freshmen live off campus. Many live in the student ghettos near campus, but quite a few live further away, in places like Comstock, Richland, Portage, Battle Creek, and Schoolcraft. I know a few who live in Three Rivers - a town 25 miles away.

Any degree is useful, as long as it's not something like aviation, medieval studies, or family studies.

there is partying at any school, i know many people i know would argue that central, ferris, or state are bigger party schools.....
at any of those schools i just stated, most people live of campus after their freshman year! it is MUCH cheaper!!!! i saved a ton of money living in teh "student ghetto" in kzoo..i walked to campus everyday too-got very fit from it and saved and had fun walking with friends (or by myself but passing people i know everyday)...i am a teacher and i will vouch 100% for the education program at western!!! i have friends who became teachers from other schools and the courses i took were much more well-rounded, we also started practicum experiences our sophomore years meaning we were out in schools taht early! for teacing in teh state of michigan western is WAAAAY up there! even compared to other states, i feel much more prepared than the teachers i have met out here!
OKay.....whew, i had to defend western some more and if you have never been on the campus...it is beautiful-hilly, awesome sculptures everywhere modern buildings (the old campus is super beautiful-where my grandpa went). okay if anyone else wants more info on how much i love western just let me know

[flyingwriter]

Originally Posted by mofromcheboygankalamazoo

there is partying at any school, i know many people i know would argue that central, ferris, or state are bigger party schools.....
at any of those schools i just stated, most people live of campus after their freshman year! it is MUCH cheaper!!!! i saved a ton of money living in teh "student ghetto" in kzoo..i walked to campus everyday too-got very fit from it and saved and had fun walking with friends (or by myself but passing people i know everyday)...i am a teacher and i will vouch 100% for the education program at western!!! i have friends who became teachers from other schools and the courses i took were much more well-rounded, we also started practicum experiences our sophomore years meaning we were out in schools taht early! for teacing in teh state of michigan western is WAAAAY up there! even compared to other states, i feel much more prepared than the teachers i have met out here!
OKay.....whew, i had to defend western some more and if you have never been on the campus...it is beautiful-hilly, awesome sculptures everywhere modern buildings (the old campus is super beautiful-where my grandpa went). okay if anyone else wants more info on how much i love western just let me know

I go to Western. I love Western!!! I was just stating some facts about it. I agree that their teaching programs are the best in the state.

[tuebor]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

Neither one seems to want to look outside of MI or Ohio. I suggested to our overachiever that she apply to Havard, Princeton and Yale, but she refused. At Harvard she could live with Grandma and Grandpa and save a lot. No interest. Only limited interest in U-Michigan. She seems mostly focussed on Hillsdale. I do nto thnk it matters, since she does nto know what she wants to do but does nto want math/science oriented career, she will probably end up going to law school or business school. What else can you do witha liberal arts degree?

Does she know that tuition is now FREE at Harvard if your family income is below $60k/year? If that's your situation, maybe she should take another look at the Ivy League.

Hillsdale is by many accounts a right-wing echo chamber (whose president had an affair with his daughter-in-law a few years back, if memory serves). If she wants to study the humanities or social sciences, she would be better served by someplace that has a wider selection of viewpoints on campus. [Yeah, yeah, I know. Flame away.]

What else can she do with a liberal arts degree? She can teach k-12 if she gets certified, or teach postsecondary if she goes to grad school.

[borborygmi]

Originally Posted by Danielsam

Well the Original Poster did not mention MSU, but:

Sorry I don't want to sound like a big goupie fo UofM but I miss the logic. UofM is #26 but it is not at the level of the other 25 (25 point range), but MSU is 75, which is pretty much the same as #26 (50 point range)??.

The point is that even by the USNW ranking, UofM is one of the top elite schools in the US and actually a bit under-ranked based on how it is ranked on most departments. For example UofM is ranked

#2 in psychology
#3 in sociology
#3 in political science
#3 in sociology
#7 in history
#9 In Law
#12 in Business
#11 In Medicine
#9 in Engeneering
#9 in Math

And in the top 10 in all music disciplines (which is most relevant to the original poster)

If that is not an elite school I don't know what else people want. The consistency across all disciplines is at par with all other elite schools.

In how many disciplines is MSU ranked in the top 10? or top 25? MSU is a great school and you can get a great education there- not just good: GREAT, but it is simply not in the same ballpark as UofM.

I wouldn't deny at all that U-M is a fantastic school; it is, and I would certainly recommend it to any in-state resident who has the opportunity to attend. Depending on what a young person's career ambitions are, it would basically be impossible as an in-state resident to get a better quality of education for the money anywhere else.

I'm merely pointing out that MSU is often overlooked in this state as a quality university, in large part because U-M is such a great public university that it overshadows MSU's quality as an academic institution to a large degree. Consider that MSU, ranked nationally according to USNW at no. 71 and offering a vast array of undergrad degree options and graduate programs, ranks higher than a good many public universities that are considered to be the "premier" public universities in their states. For example, consider the University of Arizona or the University of Colorado. Those are the top ranked public universities in their respective states, and both are considered to be the best option academically for high achieving in-state students looking to attend a public university (I've lived in both states, so I'm not just speaking out of my arse here). Those schools are also ranked behind MSU. That's really the point that I'm trying to make, that in MI we are truly fortunate to have two large public universities of such high quality. Most states are not so lucky.

If you're interested in attending one of the super-elite schools in the top 20, as an out-of-state student, be prepared to shell out six-figure sums of money over the course of four years. I'm just not sure that's really worth it, especially in these days of soaring student debt burden, a brutal nationwide economy and stagnant entry-level incomes. The best value for your dollar in-state, IMO, is to attend U-M if you can; but if it's not right for the individual, for whatever reason, MSU is a great option as well.

[jpoole52]

I am a 2005 graduate of Albion College, and I cannot say enough about Albion as a school, but also about the education I received there because of it's liberal arts backgrounds. Employers like hiring liberal arts graduates because we are taught to look at a much broader range of subjects through critical thinking and because, suppossedly, we multi-task very well and can accomplish large-scale projects very successfully. I really liked Alma when I visited, and Hope and Adrian, as well as Kalamazoo College. I see that your daughters have already decided against Albion, but I would really recommend looking into the rest of the private schools I've discussed. They can really be made affordable through scholarships and financial aid. Good luck!

[Jswee]

Having one son that's a Sophomore in college and another that's a Senior in High School I've visited a whole bunch of colleges in the last two years. Here is my input.

Hillsdale - Great school, great academics, in the middle of nowhere so plan on staying on campus. Small School, veeery conservative, not that there is anything wrong with that. Excellent education and it's unique enough that when you put it on a resume people will notice.

Alma - Small liberal arts school, OK but not great academics, not much of a reputation, farm town with nothing to do in it, was not overly impressed. Seems like they are struggling trying to get to the same level as some of the better known liberal arts schools and failing to make the grade.

Kalamazoo College - Great school, especially for woman, unique curriculum, very competitive, great academics, Kalamazoo is a great town, advantages of a big city but still a safe place for the most part. Very liberal school but has some unique features that make it stand out. I did not know much about K but after visiting it I came away very impressed. My son was accepted and came very close to going there, I think they offer a really outstanding approach to learning there.

Albion - Great academics and a very nice campus. Small boring town but close to Lansing and A2. One of the best liberal arts schools in Michigan and will make an impression on a resume. I admit some bias, both my wife and I graduated from there and my son goes there too.

Hope Collage - Great setting in Holland and a very nice campus. Very good academics, pretty conservative so if that's not your thing it might not be a good match.

GVSU - Beautiful campus and the academics have come a long way in recent years. Probably the nicest State University in the State from a physical stand point. If you have classes in the GR campus the bus ride is a little bit of a drawback.

Western - Great Arts program, nice campus, Kalamazoo is a great town. Well earned reputation as a party school (not that partying does not happen at just about every other school, too). Campus is spread out and has some hills, so plan on walking a bunch. Some of the newer buildings are beautiful. Good academics, reputation in the arts community is good and will get you into the grad school of your choice. I have a SIL who was a fine arts major at Western and parlayed it into a professional performing career.

CMU - Pretty good school, also a party school reputation. Not much to do in Mt. Pleasant. The campus has improved a lot in recent years. Academics are pretty good. BIL went there and was able to get into Cornell Law School with a CMU degree.


EMU - Would not be my first or even my fifth choice for undergrad and I say that as an Alum (got my masters there). Campus is not that exciting and I can't think of any compelling reasons to pick EMU over some of the other State schools.

You might want to take a look at Wright State in Dayton, I've heard that they have a pretty good music program.

[suydam]

Originally Posted by Jswee

Kalamazoo College - Great school, especially for woman, unique curriculum, very competitive, great academics, Kalamazoo is a great town, advantages of a big city but still a safe place for the most part. Very liberal school but has some unique features that make it stand out. I did not know much about K but after visiting it I came away very impressed. My son was accepted and came very close to going there, I think they offer a really outstanding approach to learning there.

I concur.... especially because I'm an alum.

I would say if you're looking at small schools this should be on your list. My degree has opened doors and the liberal arts curriculum, coupled with study abroad left me incredibly well prepared for a career in the global economy.

I have spent the last 15 years telling anyone I know (who's looking for a small-college experience and has exceptional grades and test-scores) to look at K College.

I will also mention, as an over-achiever in high school it was humbling to walk into college with a 4.0GPA and a 32 ACT and find out I was nothing more than average. That alone was a life-lesson worth learning.