[Coldjensens]

THank you that is helpful. I will look at K college. When I was in college K college was known for being the shcool withthe higest suicide rate by a considerable margin. I am not sure why that is. Is the atmosphere insanely competitive?

One reason to choose Eastern is that it might be free. That is a big advantage.

We do nto qualify for the Harvard free program. I had heard that up to a certian level they charge 10% of the parent's income. There is another Ivy league school (Princeton?) that does not charge tuition at all anymore. They have a large enough endowment that tuition is no longer necessary.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by borborygmi

I wouldn't quite go that far.
Here are the latest US News rankings:

National Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

As you can see, U of M is number 26 among nationally ranked universities, certainly excellent for a public university but not quite what I would consider an equivalent of the schools you've listed. There are, you'll notice, three public universities ranked ahead of it according to this list. You'll also notice that lowly MSU, generally considered the red-headed stepchild to the glamorous university in Ann Arbor, is ranked at number 71; not actually that far behind, and solidly among the top tier.

The discrepancy between the two universities these days isn't what it once was or what Ann Arborites would like to believe. In reality, of course depending on what your career interests are, in most cases you can't go wrong with either.

Just take note that US News opinions are that, opinions of one journal's staff.

Originally Posted by Rapunzll

Don't lose track of the fact that it doesn't matter what a college or university's rating is if it isn't a good match for your child.

Originally Posted by tuebor

Does she know that tuition is now FREE at Harvard if your family income is below $60k/year? If that's your situation, maybe she should take another look at the Ivy League.

Hillsdale is by many accounts a right-wing echo chamber (whose president had an affair with his daughter-in-law a few years back, if memory serves). If she wants to study the humanities or social sciences, she would be better served by someplace that has a wider selection of viewpoints on campus. [Yeah, yeah, I know. Flame away.]

What else can she do with a liberal arts degree? She can teach k-12 if she gets certified, or teach postsecondary if she goes to grad school.

Odd that Hillsdale takes the hit for being "right wing," but there's no comment on Harvard's decidedly leftist stance. Decidedly far leftist, I might add.
Recently a Harvard president was forced to resign for daring state the thought that men and women might be wired differently.
Now there's a liberal, thoughtful, open-minded school for you!

BTW, IMO one of the valuable life lessons one could learn at Hillsdale is that you don't have to be addicted to government money to make a go of it today. Hillsdale is one of the very very few (only one?) colleges today that is free of the controlling tentacles that come with "free government money."

Most US colleges today are run by and staffed by the left of center crowd. But narry a comment about that disturbing trend, in the institutions that should be encouraging and practicing thoughtfulness, discussion, and debate from all points of view.

Many colleges today make strong efforts to twist the political opinions of malleable students toward the leftist viewpoint.

Many of the elitist, and I might add failed, so-called leadership in the US today are Ivy League alums. Harvard and Yale lead the list, with Harvard being almost a requirement to get into the club.

For those who dislike the current regime, guess who has a BA from Yale and an MBA from Harvard?
For those prepared to dislike the incoming regime, guess who went to Harvard Law?

My father attended Dartmouth, in the 30s. He spoke frequently and fondly of "Prexy Hopkins," who he considered a strong and capable college president.

He said he would not want me to attend the Dartmouth of today (this was the 70s+) due to its left-full-rudder turn. A battle for more viewpoints opened with the establishment of the Dartmouth Review, a conservative alternative monthly newspaper that bucked the leftist party line at the school.

And I didn't, for many reasons including greades, desire, geography, etc. So I am a proud graduate of a down south state school.

Kudzu League for me, thank you.

[suydam]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

THank you that is helpful. I will look at K college. When I was in college K college was known for being the shcool withthe higest suicide rate by a considerable margin. I am not sure why that is. Is the atmosphere insanely competitive?

Sounds like an urban legend to me.

It's also very small (1340 students) so one person committing suicide (1 out of 1340) would kick the rate up WAY above the national average (roughly 1 out of 10,000 in 2005).

It was a very academically rigorous school, but I wouldn't call it competitive as much as demanding.... that was a number of years ago though, your best bet would be to ask current students. My guess is that there was some statistical anomaly that caused that suicide rate to show up wrong. During my 4 years there, and the 7 years after that (during which I lived in Kalamazoo and volunteered at the school) I recall recall a single murder-suicide (1999 I think), but that's it. Hardly a pattern.

[suydam]

Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit

Hillsdale is one of the very very few (only one?) colleges today that is free of the controlling tentacles that come with "free government money."

How are they any different from every other private school that refuses federal and state funding?

Also, does Hillsdale accept students that have federal or state aid (for example a Pell Grant or Michigan Merit Scholarship)?

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by suydam

How are they any different from every other private school that refuses federal and state funding?

Also, does Hillsdale accept students that have federal or state aid (for example a Pell Grant or Michigan Merit Scholarship)?

I suggest you do some research on Hillsdale to discover the specifics of how they offer alternatives to strings-attached federal and state money.

I think you'll find almost all private schools accept monies such as VA dollars and many other federal programs.

What makes Hillsdale unique is that they have gone creative and found alternative funding for all those who might be eligible for the grants, etc.
I was surprised to learn they didn't even take VA money, since VA aid helped me through college.
But they don't; they will take no money with strings, strings that inevitably demand some sort of PC compromises that many of us don't appreciate one bit.

As I said, Hillsdale appears to be a different type of school, with a different philosophy, that walks the walk of open mindedness and independence.

There's a great quote in Tim Russert's book Big Russ and Me. His dad, big Russ, was a garbage collector in Buffalo, NY. He worked his way up to foreman, and had a chance at a supervisor spot. He achieved of the three top scores in the shootoff.
"Some strange men" visited the home one day, and later Russert found that they had attempted to get his father to drop out. They offered to make it worth his while.

Big Russ later told his son, "It's not that I didn't need the money. There were a lot of things I could've done with that money. But I was afraid of what the money would do to me." (Or words to that effect.)

I admire a man, or a college, that has its ethical head as clear as that.

[Coldjensens]

I Like that about Hillsdale as well. According to their website the Federal Government wanted them to comply with an affirmative action program. Hillsdale said that they did not need it. There were after all the first college to offer full degrees to blacks. The government insisted and Hillsdale told them to take a hike. I like that a lot.

[suydam]

Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit

I suggest you do some research on Hillsdale to discover the specifics of how they offer alternatives to strings-attached federal and state money.

I think you'll find almost all private schools accept monies such as VA dollars and many other federal programs.

I just read about it on their site... very cool concept. Thanks for sending me off to do research, it was enlightening.

You're correct, most private schools accept things like the Michigan Tuition Grant, which it sure looks like Hillsdale avoids.

Thanks again.

[Hans64]

Hillsdale is an extremely right-wing institution and if your child is interested in hearing other viewpoints you will not get it there. Within the wealthy Detroit suburbs where I grew up Hillsdale is somewhat regarded as a second-tier private school for students that did not perform exceptionally in high school. The school has a very conservative social climate that some parents seem to like because the college itself serves "in loco parentis".

Both Kalamazoo and Albion are stronger academically and are held in much higher regard.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Hans64

Hillsdale is an extremely right-wing institution and if your child is interested in hearing other viewpoints you will not get it there. Within the wealthy Detroit suburbs where I grew up Hillsdale is somewhat regarded as a second-tier private school for students that did not perform exceptionally in high school. The school has a very conservative social climate that some parents seem to like because the college itself serves "in loco parentis".

Both Kalamazoo and Albion are stronger academically and are held in much higher regard.

It cannot be a schools for underperformers. Looking a tthe admission requirements that they sent us, no underperformers are going to get admitted.

[Jswee]

Originally Posted by Hans64

Hillsdale is an extremely right-wing institution and if your child is interested in hearing other viewpoints you will not get it there. Within the wealthy Detroit suburbs where I grew up Hillsdale is somewhat regarded as a second-tier private school for students that did not perform exceptionally in high school. The school has a very conservative social climate that some parents seem to like because the college itself serves "in loco parentis".

Both Kalamazoo and Albion are stronger academically and are held in much higher regard.

In all fairness I would say that K College is as far to the left as Hillsdale is to the right on the liberal/conservative spectrum and that in general most colleges lean decidedly to the liberal side of the spectrum. So the idea that only a conservative school offers a one dimensional point of view is somewhat misleading. I would also disagree with the idea that Hillsdale is perceived to be a second tier private school. I would consider Alma, Adrian & Olivet as "second tier" private schools in michigan but Hillsdale would not fall in that category. According to the US News College rankings for liberal arts schools, it ranked them in this order; K-College, Hope, Hillsdale, Albion. It's my opinion that all of them are great schools and all excel at certain aspects of education. If I was planning on going into political science for a career, for example, a degree from Hillsdale will get noticed far more in Washington than one from one of these other liberal arts schools.

I would not have problem with any of my kids going to Hillsdale and I say that as both an Albion Graduate who also currently has a son there and as someone who has a niece & nephew at Hope and also as someone who thinks that K college, with their K plan and the study abroad component of their curriculum, offers a unique and impressive approach to education.