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Old 12-12-2008, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Loving life in Gaylord!
4,120 posts, read 8,865,656 times
Reputation: 3915

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Even if we do save these companies no one can buy a car as it is because banks are hording their money, and economy sucks. I do not understand how will they survive even with a bailout?
This country needs jobs or no one will buy anything.
After the automotive mess is taken care of they NEED to do something about the housing mess. I think the days of people spending so much money on a house are gone for a long time. That means there are millions of houses just sitting.
Something needs to be done so people can buy a house for a decent price and not have to pay 15 years of mostly interest.
Why cant $700 of a $900 payment go to interest instead of $150?
To me this is HUGE! Imagine the confidence we would have seeing the balance we owe on our house go down quickly instead of, like me for example 7 years of paying $950 a month and only see my balance go down $9000
Same for a car. The fatcats at the head of all these companies making millions and millions have to understand it cannot be that way anymore, and they need to put some of that money in the employees pocket.
I am all for people living the American dream of making it rich, but right now that dream may have to be put on the backburner, or at least instead of these fatcats living on 10 mill a year for example, maybe they can get by on 5 mill

Until this happens, we will be in this big hurt for a long time.
Also the fingerpointing needs to end, and we need solutions for all these problems before we are to the point of no return, and that is not far away.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,403,084 times
Reputation: 39425
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The problem is, the taxpayers of other states who are not making anything close to the $79 per hour that auto workers make are the ones who would have to end up paying for that bailout. Now why should someone making $12 be forced to pay more taxes so the union workers can keep living high on the hog? That's the feeling people have.

The auto workers simply must compete with auto workers of other states. The salaries in Michigan are so much higher than in other states, that the people of other states don't want to have to subsidize them. And we won't even discuss the muli-million dollar wages of your CEO's, it's ridiculous to think the taxpayers should pay more to keep those salaries for them.
What autoworkers make $79 per hour? Certainly not in Michigan they do not.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:38 PM
 
6,734 posts, read 9,312,773 times
Reputation: 1857
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The problem is, the taxpayers of other states who are not making anything close to the $79 per hour that auto workers make are the ones who would have to end up paying for that bailout. Now why should someone making $12 be forced to pay more taxes so the union workers can keep living high on the hog? That's the feeling people have.

The auto workers simply must compete with auto workers of other states. The salaries in Michigan are so much higher than in other states, that the people of other states don't want to have to subsidize them. And we won't even discuss the muli-million dollar wages of your CEO's, it's ridiculous to think the taxpayers should pay more to keep those salaries for them.
They don't make $79/hour. Their hourly wage is just slightly higher than the Asians pay in the Southern US. Detroit is getting crushed by benefits to current employees and retirees (legacy costs), mismanagement, and lack of vision. To survive, they will also have to cut hourly pay.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:44 PM
 
327 posts, read 964,334 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The problem is, the taxpayers of other states who are not making anything close to the $79 per hour that auto workers make are the ones who would have to end up paying for that bailout. Now why should someone making $12 be forced to pay more taxes so the union workers can keep living high on the hog? That's the feeling people have.

Posting fiction, dear. Please, a $79 hrly rate! Where did you come up with that one. Yep, all the UAW workers I know are living in $500K McMansions. Get real, Malamute! We're talking starter homes or modest middle class two stories. I do know a couple who built a beautiful brick and timber home from the ground up themselves. Of course, it was kind of a freak thing when they weren't feeling their usual shiftless, lazy selves!

The 2007 UAW contract pay scale is $14.00 hrly for new hires. Nissan is starting out at $18.00. I will agree with the CEO's compensation. No CEO in this country should be paid more than a $1M. The CEO's agreed to $1 annual salary as a condition for the bridge loan.

Please, kiddies, just read and post facts!
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:26 PM
 
316 posts, read 1,177,635 times
Reputation: 141
I am not sure 79 dollars an hour is accurate, but I know of a dozen or so personally making about 125 K a year. I think that goes a bit farther then a starter home, but with proper financial mismanagement I am sure that a starter home might be even pushing it.
This argument over who are the bad guys in the situation goes down to class warfare. If you are a blue collar person you tend to side with the hourly workers that can barely afford a cup of coffee and build there homes with spare materials they get from leftover car scraps. If you enjoy shopping at bloomingdale's you tend to side with the overpaid CEO's that really deserve the giant salaries they are now forgoing. I think they both are overpaid and feel that in my opinion, the hourly wager earning 125 K a year is a bit more annoying then a big wig CEO being compensated for steering the ship.
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:35 PM
 
2,299 posts, read 6,155,993 times
Reputation: 1744
That $79 dollar figure is accurate, as it includes not just wages, but also benefits, including pension and health care.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:00 PM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,320,948 times
Reputation: 14244
Quote:
Originally Posted by deslok View Post
I think they both are overpaid and feel that in my opinion, the hourly wager earning 125 K a year is a bit more annoying then a big wig CEO being compensated for steering the ship.

Seriously? You feel that a union worker who gives his/her entire career to a company isn't worth 6 figures but CEO's who RUIN companies and completely obliterate the American economy are worth millions in bonuses? Really?

Are you sure you aren't just jealous of said workers?
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,394 posts, read 4,065,314 times
Reputation: 1411
Quote:
Originally Posted by smellykat View Post
Posting fiction, dear. Please, a $79 hrly rate! Where did you come up with that one. Yep, all the UAW workers I know are living in $500K McMansions. Get real, Malamute!
Get real yourself. It's the ongoing obligations to the retirees that won't go away (easily).

I think the president of the UAW ought to talk to the president of the United Steelworkers; ask about how the USW tough line worked out for them. Market forces are tough to ignore.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:02 PM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,320,948 times
Reputation: 14244
Quote:
Originally Posted by prairiestate View Post
That $79 dollar figure is accurate, as it includes not just wages, but also benefits, including pension and health care.
That's not accurate because that's not what they see in their paychecks. Who goes around comparing job pay rates with that calculated into it? Answer: MANAGEMENT to make union workers look bad. I wonder how much GM upper management made while running the company into the ground? Is it the UAW's fault upper management can't run their company?
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,394 posts, read 4,065,314 times
Reputation: 1411
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Is it the UAW's fault upper management can't run their company?
You mean the company should have let them go on strike or shut down the plants years ago instead of meeting the union's demands?
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